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Mastering the Balance Between Tradition & Innovation: Insights from Steve Grass

In the latest episode of The AceCall.ai Podcast, we sat down with Steve Grass, General Manager and Executive Professional at St. Andrew’s East Golf & Country Club, to discuss the evolving landscape of private golf club management.

With over 20 years of experience at top clubs like The Nest at Friday Harbour, Coppinwood, The Briars, and Angus Glen, Steve has a wealth of knowledge on maintaining elite member experiences while integrating modern efficiencies.

Key Takeaways from Our Conversation:

✅ Managing a Private Equity Golf Club Comes with Unique Challenges
Unlike many private clubs, St. Andrew’s East doesn’t have tee times or outside tournaments, meaning the focus is entirely on enhancing the member experience. Steve discussed how financial sustainability, governance, and operational efficiencies differ in an equity club model and how his background in finance has helped him navigate these complexities.

✅ Balancing Tradition with Innovation in Club Management
Technology adoption at St. Andrew’s East is strategic and intentional. Steve emphasized that while AI and automation can drive efficiencies, they should never replace the personal interactions that define private club experiences. Instead, backend innovations—like a custom-built member portal for event registration and score tracking—have streamlined operations without disrupting the club’s traditional feel.

✅ AI & Automation: A Game-Changer for Club Operations
Steve is a proactive AI adopter, using ChatGPT and other AI tools to 3X his productivity. From drafting member communications to simplifying financial reporting, AI allows him to focus on high-impact leadership tasks instead of getting bogged down in admin work. He sees AI-powered predictive analytics as a major opportunity for clubs to optimize staffing, pace of play, and food & beverage operations.

✅ The Future of Golf Club Technology
The next wave of innovation will focus on autonomous maintenance equipment, AI-driven irrigation, and advanced food & beverage automation. Steve sees AI enhancing operational efficiency while ensuring that private clubs remain personal, service-driven environments. He predicts that voice AI receptionists, automated inventory management, and real-time member engagement tools will become standard across the industry.

This episode is packed with actionable insights for golf club managers looking to stay ahead of industry trends while preserving the traditions that make their clubs unique.

📞 Want to experience the future of club management? Call +1 (866) 838-8581 to test-drive AceCall.ai’s AI Voice Receptionist and see how it can optimize your club’s operations.

🎧 Listen now and learn how AI is reshaping golf club management!

🔔 Subscribe to The AceCall.ai Podcast for more expert insights on how AI can help golf club managers win in today’s competitive landscape.

Podcast Episode Transcript

Clay (00:05)

Welcome to the ACE Call AI Podcast where we help golf club managers win with AI. Managing a golf club today is harder than ever. So we created simple AI solutions and a podcast to make it easier for you. I'm Clayton Elliott.

Brad (00:21)

And I'm Brad Milligan. Together, we bring a mix of entrepreneurial innovation and decades of golf club management experience to help you optimize your club, increase profitability, and elevate the member experience. So let's dive in. We are honored to have Steve Grass, the general manager and executive professional at St. Andrew's East Golf and Country Club join us today. He was the 2022 executive professional of the year for the PGA of Ontario, and he brings over two decades of experience in the golf industry.

having made significant contributions to renowned clubs across Canada, including the NEST at Friday Harbor, Coppenwood, the Briers and Angus Glen. His passion and commitment to the game are evident in his leadership at St. Andrew's East, where he continues to uphold the club's legacy while steering it towards future innovations. Steve is not only a Class A professional of the PGA, but also a member of the Association of Golf Merchandisers and the Canadian Society of Club Managers.

He's currently pursuing the certified club managers CCM designation through the club managers association of Canada, reflecting his dedication to professional development. Beyond his professional achievements, Steve is a proud husband and father of three actively engaging in various outdoor activities and community initiatives. In today's episode, we'll delve into the successes and challenges at St. Andrew's East golf and country club and discuss the balance between tradition and innovation.

We'll also explore the role of AI and future technologies in golf and get some insights into Steve's time management and productivity strategies. So without further ado, let's welcome Steve Grass of the show. Welcome Steve, thanks for joining us today.

Steve Grass (02:02)

Thanks for having me. Very exciting and quite an intro there.

Brad (02:06)

Yeah, that was quite the intro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you did. Yeah, yeah, you did.

Clay (02:08)

You earned it.

Literally, you've earned it, That's a pretty

impressive career, man. That's awesome.

Brad (02:16)

Yeah,

I'm exhausted already.

Steve Grass (02:20)

It's been fun. It's been totally fun. And you know what, you know, just a snot-nosed kid from the East Coast of Canada that immigrated to Central Canada. So, know, happy to be here. Thanks for having me today.

Brad (02:34)

Thanks, Steve. So Steve, start with the big picture. You've been leading St. Andrew's East for a while now, and I know every club comes with its own unique challenges and victories. Let's dive into some of those. What are some of the unique challenges you face managing a private equity golf club like St. Andrew's East, and how have you addressed them?

Clay (02:35)

Thanks, Steve.

Steve Grass (02:54)

Yeah, mean, it's a good question. Lots of challenges, know, every club has its own bunch of

came to the club, we were in pretty good shape, which is not often. You get to a club where there's a big shakeup and a new GM comes in, fortunate enough that we were in good shape. We had some stuff that we needed to work on, but that's easily set for a lot of clubs. Where I felt it was a big challenge for me coming from the nested Friday Harbor was a startup, brand new, let's call it

you know, just trying to identify exactly what they were to, you know, going from something that's in a stage of hyper growth to a stage of maintaining was a different shift in gears.

you know, the board of directors did have a mandate for me to document capture and just try to put service at the forefront of the club. So that was a lot of fun. But also coming from a semi-private environment with a little bit of public play, corporate structure, going back to a board structure.

you know, more committees, those types of things. There was a bit of challenge there. But also the equity side of things. I'm trying to wrap my head around what that meant and how that differed from, know, ultimately like a seasons past model or traditional non-equity, you know, initiation type model and using some of my finance background to kind of help me understand the club's finances and how they, you know, drove capital

capital expenditure, capital budget versus our operating budget and how that differed from non-equity clubs. There's a lot of moving parts there and a lot of things to get up to speed really quick. Had to become the master of everything. Well, master of everything, not really the master, just a jack of all trades, of master of nothing. It just had to be a little good at little bit of everything, right? And that was neat and more hands-on with food and beverage and membership-safe.

we get a really small team. know, let's all be honest too, a bunch of it had to do with accounting. We have a bookkeeper, she's great, but preparing the financial statements at the end of the month, we had a full accounting team and marketing team, communications team at Friday Harbor. So it was like, it had to be a little bit of everything.

Brad (05:36)

Yeah, and that's a key point is a flexibility, right? You have to be so flexible in the golf industry.

Steve Grass (05:42)

Yeah, you had to wear a lot of hats and it was really, you gotta be a little good at everything and that's where you guys jumped in and wanted to talk a little bit about AI and how I'm using AI to, let's call it 3X my productivity, I think is so important and the best quote I've heard about AI, it's not AI that's gonna take over, it's not gonna be Skynet, it's gonna be people using AI.

that are going to power this world. right now, I feel like I'm bit of an early adopter and I'm trying to utilize it more than the average bear and trying to allow myself to be a bit more productive and to save myself time in all aspects of my life and not necessarily just professionally or personally too.

Clay (06:40)

Very cool. I have a bunch of questions, but I'm also be sorry. Can you hear me? Okay. Now better now I have, we have a bunch of questions, but I also want to be mindful of our time. So I'm going to jump down to the next questions. Cause I want us to dive in all the topics that you wanted, you mentioned you wanted to touch on, but I also want to be mindful of our time. Brad, you want it? You want to just continue on.

Steve Grass (07:05)

Yeah.

Brad (07:06)

Sure.

Yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah. And Steve, we can edit out anything here. Like this software is incredible. So anything where we have breaks or anything like that, we just chop it. That's what AI is great for. You don't have to be too mindful. If you need to go to the washroom, whatever, it's all good.

Steve Grass (07:13)

us.

great, okay, so I don't need to be perfect. Okay, I'm good.

Clay (07:22)

No, for

real. It literally, just said it, like, we're like, just, we just press the button. say AI it, and then it just does this stuff. And then it gives it back to us and he goes, is this better? And we're like, yeah, that's way better. That would have taken me four hours of sitting here, splicing audios and doing all this stuff and changing levels. It does it all automatically.

Steve Grass (07:33)

So good, I love that.

Brad (07:33)

Yeah. It's...

Yeah.

Steve Grass (07:40)

It's insane.

Brad (07:41)

Yeah. All right. So Steve, golf is one of the most tradition-rich sports in the world and private clubs especially have a deep rooted history. But at the same time, clubs have to evolve to stay relevant. Let's talk about how you approach that balance between tradition and innovation at St. Andrew's East. How do you balance maintaining these traditions while introducing innovative practices at St. Andrew's East?

Steve Grass (08:06)

Yeah, we chatted a little bit about this, Brad, and just about how we have a lot of ideas and technology is changing so rapidly. At St. Andrew's East, it doesn't seem to be on the same trajectory from a technology implementation standpoint.

It was not too long ago we didn't have voicemail. Like we're talking about, you know, probably inside 10 years for sure. And, you know, and then after that we got, yeah, I think it was probably about six or seven years ago we got voicemail. And then probably five years prior to that, we got a, you know, a computerized point of sale system and, you know, accounting software. You know, we were all doing just the handwritten

chits and like just a lot of paper a lot of paper and and a lot of room for error so you know

Just going to that alone, I think was a big step for St. Andrews East and trying to not rip the bandaid off completely as it pertains to all of the technology. still want to ensure, we're never gonna have a kiosk for check-in. know we're not, that's just not, it's not a private club. It's not how the personal nature of private clubs work.

It's trying to add technology to make life easier more so on the backend versus it on the forefront. A lot of clubs are implementing mobile apps and so on and so forth. We just don't see the real.

benefit for us for that. mean we don't have tee times so it's we're just a show up and play club so you you're not you're not booking you're not using you know you're not you're not trying to get online really quick to make sure you're getting your bookings in you know the the value would be you know we do have a mobile

friendly website on the back end so that when somebody does want to go in our website from the front end is pretty rudimentary. But when you get in the back end, there's a lot more functionality for a membership and like that wasn't normal a few years ago. So we've changed that a lot. Added, you know, the calendars and event registrations and you you can check their men's night standings on the back end too. And it all links up to

You know, one of our members is amazing and been phenomenal where a lot of clubs are, you know, leaning on Golf Genius and Jonas to, you know, host and create the platforms required to do all of these, you know, fancy, scourings and calendars and so on and so forth. But one of our members actually, you know, he's, he's a tech guru and,

you know, a good coder and did all of our back end website for us and created our own, you know, let's call it customized golf genius platform. So it has all our scoring and, you know, talks to golf Canada and, you know, if somebody doesn't post a score or post is incorrectly, it does let them know. So using technology to, you know, create some operational efficiencies is super important, but

I don't see us being a super duper high tech club. We'd be lovely to get some technology out in the range, those types of things, but I think it's gonna be for us, it's gonna be a real slow approach to try to keep that personal nature inside of our private club. We hang our hat on.

our club is somewhat an extension of their home. So if, you we're not quite a smart home yet, but at the same time, know, anything that we can do to make our lives easier on the back end without increasing our overall overhead when it comes to, you team, I think it will be important.

Clay (12:42)

That's very cool. Do you have any, any examples? know you mentioned, you kind of briefly touched on, but any that you come to mind that you, or even your members would consider like a really innovative change that you've implemented that's been really well received by members.

Steve Grass (13:00)

Well, yeah, mean, so just something as simple as, know, we went from, it was a Tion, which is a pretty bare bones point of sale system to total E integrated.

you know, it was a pain in the butt to try to get going. But any, any, you know, implementation of a point of sale is going to be a pain in the butt. It was, it was hard. you know, going from, you know, we went from just this standard system to something now that if somebody comes in and does a, you know, a food and beverage transaction, you know, we had, found that there was a lot of like errors, you know, you only have 375 members, but, just a,

you know, a simple, you know, like somebody goes in and gets a beer and a sandwich, it just gets, instead of it being on Jonathan Smith, it was on Jonathan Jones or something along those lines. You know, as soon as that transaction happened, they get an email receipt. I thought that was, you know, as simple as it sounds, it creates a lot less headaches if we're able to correct that problem immediately. Being able to go online and check out, you know, users, you know, their statements.

going online and being able to make payments to their member accounts. Those types of things were really, you know, as simple as they sound. They changed the ballgame a lot and just made things a lot easier on our end. We went from traditional, you know, we had these old 1980s, you know, and I'll tell you about an AI application, how I did this too. So,

We had these old...

a whole of one plex and we're trying to come up with the solutions like you know, we're running in a room on these They're old they're big and for us to replace these there's gonna be let's call it $2,500 each problem. It's gonna be ridiculous how much this is gonna be so how are we going to change this? And make it a bit more modern because you know, we're running a space we want everything to kind of look the same So we decided alright. Well, let's make make you know, let's do a digital

So we actually bought four TVs and

put them all four together and you know, I was talking about our member who did our coding for our website. He created a backend of the website that we just go in, we update all our whole ones and it basically has a wall of fame that just scrolls through. And so instead of us spending, well we have six whole, you know, six par threes. So what's that, $3,000? I think it was like 1,500 bucks is what we were in.

Maybe $2,000 when it was all said and done. It was probably two grand.

you know, for a 43 inch TV, four 43 inch TVs, some mounts, you know, on a small computer to do, but you know, it was also a pain in my butt to try to think, how am going to get all these names in these years onto, so I used, actually used ChatGPT. I took it, I snapped a picture of it and I said, list them chronologically, and it was like, this is, this turned something, you know, like it was going to take me a month to do. It probably got, I probably got it done in about half an

hour so it was it was just an unbelievable revelation at that point in time like wow okay this is going to change my life

Brad (16:39)

Yeah, that's the thing is that the amount of time you can save on those, those like medial tasks where you have to sit there and just stare at a screen and like there's user error there too, right? That can, that can pop in. Another question here is how do you stay informed about emerging trends in golf club management to ensure San Andres East keeps offering a top tier product and service?

Steve Grass (17:00)

That's all about networking, think, and the best ideas are all stolen. You're never really the first person to do it.

Clay (17:08)

Very rarely, very rarely.

Steve Grass (17:10)

It's right exactly right when I'm not coming up with it myself. So it's in it's just kind of tweaking you know those those ideas and tweaking it to to to better suit our club and in our in our direct need. Conferences are great for that you know the CMAC conference national conference and you know just hanging out with you know our PGA buddies you know and talking about those types of things I think is super

important. I read up on AI blogs and whatnot. It's kind of fun. It's my late night reading before bed kind of thing. But it's just trying to keep your finger on the pulse a little bit.

But it's more so if somebody has a problem and we have lots of networking groups that people send stuff back and forth. This industry is so much different than any other corporate world. You're constantly sharing information. Are we competitors? Yeah, but at the same time, everybody wants to see everybody succeed. So if we can help each other out, I think it's

We're all very much on board with that.

Clay (18:36)

Yeah, that's very cool. It's, I'm not from, I don't have a golf background, but I'm learning as I've been going over the time I've been, Brad and I've been speaking about this for a long time. I've been learning through my conversations with him about the industry and it's a fragmented industry, meaning there's not one golf club that has 80 % of the market share out there. It's like electrician businesses or locksmith businesses. There's tons of geographically.

located providers. And like, you're not competing with the golf club in Calgary. Your members aren't going to be like, I'm going to go play golf in Calgary. You're not even on the same page. So you guys can share best practices and, knowledge and wisdom and experiences and you can share them. And it doesn't, it's a, it's not a zero sum game. It's everyone's club gets better by sharing of these wins and these breakthroughs and no one's, everyone's plate is full. No one's plate is empty. that makes sense.

Steve Grass (19:35)

degree more and you know it's you know the the minute you stop sharing in this industry I think we lose our you know we lose that advantage and and I don't ever see that you know they've been sharing for decades and so there's never really been you know I that not at time in my lifetime where there has been I mean I've kind of gravitated to the private club private club world more so than the than the public game right so you're not competing for that

that last 1 % of occupancy. And we've gone through our ups and downs too. So the golf industry is lucky that we're in a surge and things are great, but it hasn't always been that way.

So, you know, tough times make tough people in resilient industries. So we survived that and we did that through, you know, through helping each other and, you know, whether it's, you know, internship programs and collaborating, shared job fairs, you know, those types of things and job sharing. There's even that up. I've seen that a lot, you know, up north and in places where they find it real hard to find staff.

So those types of things alone, that's unheard of in industries. So best practices, utilizing all of your associations, resources for that, I think is super important just to understand exactly everything.

You're never going to know everything that's available to you, maximizing how many resources you have available at that point in time, you know exactly what's going on.

Clay (21:31)

Yep. Very cool. Cool. Let's, let's shift now, to AI and automation and golf club management. Let's talk about this. know we've taught, we've touched on it briefly. It's something that you, you know, studying in your own free time, which is, recommend everybody listening to this do that. Even if you just find one blog, one YouTube channel, one podcast, hint, hint.

Nudge, nudge, you know, this one, but it just, you got to start brushing up on it's a new, new vernacular. It's new terminology, new applications every, every day, every week, every month, there's going be new applications for this software. And you don't have to be at the, at the head of the pack to be running with the pack. But if you're completely behind on all of this stuff in two or three years, it becomes common vernacular. And then you're trying to catch up then it's just going to be even harder to play catch up at that point.

So, you know, artificial intelligence, it's, revolutionizing, it's transforming every industry pretty much under the sun. How do you see AI impacting golf club management today and tomorrow moving forward?

Steve Grass (22:38)

You know, if I look at it from a non-private club perspective, dynamic pricing I think is coming. It's already here in some aspects. But the golf industry will be very similar to that of hotels and flights and those types of things. I think you're going to see that come up. So AI is going to be big part of that.

I think for us, utilizing AI for, it's more so for us to analyze traffic patterns and recommend when people should come to the club if they don't want to wait. It's at 9 a.m. on a Saturday morning. Everybody wants to play golf at 9 a.m. on a Saturday morning.

you know

Basically if we could you know, we can find an AI solution for us to be able to you know, grab that data, you know and and more or less extrapolate average wait times during during you know throughout the week, know, I think that would be very beneficial and that's their thousand dollar idea versus your million dollar idea It's not exactly a you know, super, you know super profitable but but the end of the day very very beneficial for a club like ours and we were far between

paying ones without without tee times but but but but but we are looking at solutions like that and what we can do you know for me it's been you know chat GPT's been you know I've started paying for chat GPT a while ago and once I started doing that you know I realized hey I got a little skin in the game now it's not a lot but but same time it's you know you realize

how much more productive I can be on a day-to-day basis even if you know we don't have a communications person well it gives you a good start on every member email right like you know is it perfect no it's not it's never perfect but at the end of the day is somebody really care that I use Shatchi BT to to get the information across versus you know me writing every word out verbatim you know what I think that's

they pay me for is to be productive and get my job done as quickly as possible and then move on to the next task. So if I'm going to spend an hour and a half on a member communication, if I can throw some bullet points into ChatGPT and it learns how I write and how I sound and I'm able to prompt it to give me something that works really well and then

just massage it right if I can do that inside 20 minutes like who's not going to take that option right social media another good example right you know just using that just for for that copy right trying to get creative with copy I mean it's AI is not that funny but but

Clay (25:54)

It's not, it's not,

it's, it's surprisingly not that funny. It does not get it.

Steve Grass (25:55)

It's not at all, right? So if you're for a comedian,

Brad (25:57)

No.

Steve Grass (25:59)

you try somebody else. But at the end of the day, right, it gives you some really great, know, it just simplifies your life so much more versus having to hire a social media person to run our socials at St. Andrew's East.

you know, whether it's marketing, marketing material or member inquiries, you know, I do need to try to figure out how I'm going to automate that at some point because I do answer the same question over and over again. Hey, what's membership look like? Right?

Clay (26:33)

We can help you with that.

Steve Grass (26:35)

Right, there you go. So there you go. Right. So that, you know, instead of having a membership and marketing person, know, again, I utilize ChatGPT in some aspects to help me out with that.

Brad (26:35)

You

Steve Grass (26:54)

most of my team is using it in some way, shape or form to help them write better. Whether it maybe it's analyzing spreadsheets, it takes a lot of data and it can simplify it real quick. And then you can come up with a whole bunch of different ideas and then say, hey, tear it apart. What are the opposing viewpoints here? And my goodness, it can open your eyes and actually make you

you look a heck of a lot smarter.

Brad (27:28)

It sure can. Yeah.

Clay (27:28)

100%. Yeah. And I

just want to say this one point, Brad. And then for anyone, for anyone listening, if you're thinking you're hearing chat, GPT, AI, you're, you can feel your heart rate increasing a little bit and it's frustrating. It just, it's stressful. It's new technology, right? When people learn it and they learn that tech, they're like, okay, I know this tech now it's old now. Now there's new tech. So it's happening, it's changing so fast that it can be overwhelming.

Brad (27:33)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it.

Clay (27:57)

for people who are just like, I don't want more new tech. want less tech. The reality of it is this tech is actually, they've reduced it down to the level of like dummy level of interaction. You can tell it anything and it will give you back something so quickly. You're like, I can't believe what it just gave me considering what I told it. Like the amount of information I told it, it took me seconds. And it gave me this back, which would have taken me hours to produce the, the, the time exchange is

Absolutely worth the learning curve and the discomfort that might come with the learning curve. so shameless promotion call. If you want a resource that we've created for with chat GPT prompts, pre-written prompts for golf club managers. So you can read through these prompts. You'll get a little description of what it will do for you, what it will produce for you. And if you just copy and paste these prompts into your open chat GPT, you don't need to pay for chat GPT to start.

You can use it for free, the free version. do have to log in with your email and make a free account. But then if you just copy and paste these prompts in, you'll start seeing what it will produce for you just with these prompts. It'll help get you rolling with it. So just wanted to say that call our toll free number 1-866-838-8581 and ask for the, ask our voice AI receptionist for the, the prompt resource, the free prompt resource, and we'll get it sent over to you soon as possible.

Steve Grass (29:22)

I know where I'm calling. You're call that. I love it. I was just gonna say, you know, that is literally, you're 100 % right. So like anybody who's not using it.

Brad (29:23)

There you go.

Steve Grass (29:33)

I think they just think it's so difficult. I'll never be able to learn that. I'm not tech savvy. You don't need to be tech savvy. Can you literally hold a conversation with anybody? Like have you sent a text message before? Right? You literally just have a conversation with it. And it's amazing what you can get by just having a simple conversation and just asking it questions. Right? It's very, you know, it is very simple and they make it very easy and there's tons of different, you know, it doesn't necessarily need to be chatty.

It can be Gemini or it can be Co-pilot. There's lots of different options out there. That just scrapes the surface. There's dozens of them out there. I don't even know half of them.

Clay (30:20)

Yeah. I spent all day looking at this and I don't know half of them. New ones come out and I'm like, do I need to now go learn this? I don't for the purposes that I'm using AI for, but you always have to remember the purposes that you are using AI for. That's all you have to know. You don't have to know about all these other things going on with AI. If it doesn't affect your

Brad (30:21)

Yeah.

Steve Grass (30:24)

Right.

Clay (30:41)

your day, your week, your month, your season ahead, and, maybe the next season that you want, want to get a kind of a early start on learning, but it's not even essential because you're not doing it until next season. So you don't need to pay attention to all, like any industry, like anything, my computer, if I went into my computer and looked at everything, like my laptop that I'm working on can do.

I don't know 99 % of it. don't use 99 % of it. Like all of us with all of our, your email, people go into their email box, there's thousands of features and functions and automations and things you can do in any email inbox. People don't use 98 % of it and they still get value out of the tool. So never be concerned or upset or frustrated or scared because it seems overwhelming and daunting. The thing we're talking on right now and working on right now is overwhelming and daunting. If you just tried to do anything beyond what you normally use it for.

It would stop you dead in your tracks, all technology. So you don't have to worry about it. Just learn how to use it for your needs and then forget the rest.

Brad (31:39)

Yeah, I think in the same vein, it's about, know, like Steve touched on Golf Genius, which is this really all-inclusive, like massive program to run tournaments. And it's phenomenal software. I've used it. I'm like very adept with it, but the learning curve with it, the amount of webinars I had to watch and work the backend and speak with actual customer service

golf geniuses, they're called, and you talk with them and you're like, I can't get dots on this scorecard, help me with this. You know, that there, I had to go in and learn all of that stuff. But whereas AI, you can just use it to simplify a lot of the processes you had before. And it really is a massive time saver. And it's just so user friendly in comparison to all of these programs that we have in the golf industry that require

If you just, you take a high school student who hasn't seen them anymore, you need a full-time staff member teaching this person, here's how you use this, here's how you do this, here's how you do that. I remember making videos on my phone and sending them, you know, keeping records on my phone of all these videos that I would make so that I had a database of videos I could send new staff to be like, you know, me recording myself clicking. And whereas AI is not, a lot of these AI programs are not like that at all. The software is not like that at all. It's just plug and play. It works in the backend and it just,

really simplifies your life. So Steve, how do you envision the role of AI evolving in the future of golf club management?

Steve Grass (33:14)

Well, you know, I think it's really kind of neat you just sort of described an AI, like an application for AI that hasn't been tapped in yet. If Golf Genius isn't looking at that in their own version of their own.

Version of chat GPT that can help people with golf genius. I think they're not geniuses but right, but Pardon, there's my dad my dad joke of the day But but you know how easy would be for you just to say hey, it's not coming up with dots How do I get dots on there right and all of a sudden? Yeah, just do this this and this and here I'll do it for you. Like why wouldn't we do that? So so with that said I mean, you know

Brad (33:43)

There you go.

Clay (33:45)

That was a really good one.

Brad (33:46)

Yeah.

Steve Grass (34:02)

Scribe the the there's a AI tool called scribe and I think it comes up on everybody's social media

every now and then and I know my food and beverage manager is using that right now but you're talking about using your phone to record and capture these SOPs and these how-to videos. Scribe does that all by itself. You can just basically say, here, we're gonna record this SOP, here's what I'm doing and go for it. I haven't actually used it myself but I know my food and beverage manager's doing it and I know my office manager's

about to start using it as well, just to save a lot of time. Creating SOPs is impossible, it's not impossible, but it takes a long time. And the winter is only so long. I can't even imagine somebody in the States that doesn't get half the season off.

You know, like, we use this opportunity to get everything done that we weren't able to get done during the operating season. And, you know, we think of that as time off, you know, as managers, but it's not really time off. Like, I'm busier in the off season than I wouldn't say that I am in the operating season, but it's just, you've got a lot to do and just a little bit of time to do it, so.

I don't know, I answer your question here? I kind of got off on a tangent and then I went back.

Brad (35:27)

Yeah, good stuff.

No, it's good

Clay (35:33)

great.

Brad (35:33)

content.

Clay (35:33)

This is all great.

Brad (35:34)

Yeah, just let it flow. Just let it flow. I would say AI is just one piece of the puzzle when it comes to the future of golf technology. Steve, let's broaden the scope and talk about where golf club tech as a whole is headed. Beyond AI, what other technological advancements do you foresee shaping the future of golf clubs?

Steve Grass (35:35)

Yeah.

Well, I think GPS on golf carts has already changed the game a little bit, but like you're talking about, like mowers and robotic pickers, those types of things, we're just starting to get into those realms. And AI, as it pertains to irrigation and just in turf conditions.

We have just bought a moisture management software. can't remember what it's called. POGO, I think it's called. I don't know all the ins and outs. My super would geek out on us for sure talking about it. But it records data on basically on green sites and can kind of pinpoint exactly where you need water.

So if we're able to incorporate AI into water management at clubs and irrigation systems, and those ideas I think would make things, well, one, environmentally amazing.

and just imagine how much water you're gonna save. And two, just the amount of time and effort, then not to mention the conditions. can get the course playing exactly how you want it to play it day in and day out. And it would learn, and you wouldn't just automate it. Anyway, there's your million dollar idea. I just don't know how to, I have no idea. But I think that would be a great start.

where we've started to see companies branch out is AI driven and GPS driven mowers and those types of things. We're gonna start to look at that in the next couple of years. We're not...

We're doing a pretty big equipment flip this coming season and it's not on our radar yet. The technology is just still a little too expensive for really what we're looking for. Probably our next flip, so probably inside 10 years, we'll definitely have, you know,

I wouldn't say maybe a full fleet, but a pretty good fleet of AI mowers, electric mowers, definitely going electric versus gas powered, just from a noise perspective. think if they're autonomous, I think there'll be a lot of value in being able to just send them out overnight. We're kind of in a very rural area where we're not gonna be able to, we're not waking up neighbors or anything like that. So we can send them out and if they can

their way back to the shed without going into a bunker or a pond, that would be great. But I think from a turf perspective, think there's a lot of applications there. Technology perspective, I think you're going to see a lot of A lot of clubs, they're starting to already on the range with Top Tracer being at that forefront.

just from a sheer technology perspective. Robo pickers, know, we're looking at one. We'll probably have one inside two years for sure. I think there's, you know, an opportunity there that just saves a body and just have, you know, it's like, it's no different than your Robo vacuum cleaner at home to some degree, just a little bit bigger application, you know.

So I think there's good opportunities there.

You know and then I think you know technology as it pertains to you know AI technology on the food and beverage side and just like you know coming up with suggestions and you know and Being able just to analyze, know reporting like data, you know hot sellers, you know Here's how much you know par levels and and using AI to to allow us to you know Auto order and just keep things running smoother. So we never we never run out of course light, you know

busy weekend, analyzing all of that data for us in advance so that everybody, it just makes things easier. I think that's kind of where I see it going, but I'd be really curious to hear where you guys think it's going that I didn't talk about.

Clay (40:36)

how much more time do you got left? want to be mindful of your time. Okay, cool. on, on the, just to what you said with the food and beverage, the inventory management, the ability to have all of your spreadsheets.

Steve Grass (40:38)

I got, you know what? This I got all the time in the world.

Brad (40:38)

Yeah.

Hahaha.

Clay (40:55)

all the information that would otherwise be going to a spreadsheet and then someone's table for someone to have to sift through, even with advanced spreadsheet skills and ability to use formulas to compute large amounts of data. You could just upload. You don't have to upload. It's going to get to a point in the near future. I'm talking like one to two years.

If you're looking for it, you'll find the vendors that have the, you know, functional prototype in the market within one to two years tops within two to three years, you're going to have fully functioning software that generates reports automatically just based on.

Think of it like I'm trying to put myself in a restaurant. You have your purchases. A purchase is made. You have X amount of inventory, X amount of units of lemons and limes, X amount of units. So it knows the amount of units that are coming in on one end. As the machine, your, your cash register, sorry, I'm talking more closely to my mic. As your cash register is making sales and you know,

Especially if you input it, say in a burger, we use X grams of lettuce, X grams of tomato X. Once you start giving all this data, it's like SOPs take a long time to create. The training of these AIs will take a considerable amount of time for an individual to sit there and do it. Technically the software exists right now. If someone was so inclined, they could train a chat GPT agent right now.

to do all these things right, right now. And you could integrate it. There's API's as long as your point of sale system has an API and you can plug it into that. And as long as your inventory, information can be, you know, your purchase, your, your, your, all your different materials can be fed into it. You could sit there and get it to a point where the trigger might, no, the trigger might still be automatic. It could be at the transaction of every transaction.

It pings a line item of a sale. And at the end of every day or every week or every month, you could say, email me a summary of our inventory or what should be our inventory. You know, cause if someone's putting five slices of lettuce on every burger instead of three or 10 slices of these little things add up over time. But if there's a standardization and the machine knows what it should.

be like, what it should look like as a standardized meal, put on the plate every time or standardized drink, uh, ingredients going into a drink every time. It should be able to give you live time, uh, inventory reports at end of every day. Uh, and it's, you should be able to build that right now. If someone wanted to, they could sit there and build it right now. It's, buildable right now with the software right now. It's just, is anyone doing it? No one in a golf club.

Steve Grass (43:57)

We've got to get our point

of sale companies that recognizing the value in this, right?

Clay (44:02)

They're looking at

Brad (44:02)

Mm-hmm.

Clay (44:03)

it. There's no way they're in business and they've got this far in business and built hardware and software that does these functions without having a dedicated R &D team who's trying to figure this out right now.

Steve Grass (44:07)

They've got to get going with this. Yeah.

Yeah, have to be, right? Like they have to be. Like this has to be coming down the pipeline. Right?

Clay (44:16)

have to be, they didn't, they did not get this far from being that stupid and build this.

But you know what mean? Like this hardware and software to get it working at a level where it is right now requires a certain level of intelligence and competency. Those same people didn't get there by not paying attention to where the software and the hardware applications are going. You know I mean? There's always a group who are looking two, three, four, five years down the field and everything they're working on today will not be in the market for 12, 24, 36 months.

And so that's companies, need to be tech companies. need to have those guys, the guys who are doing customer service present day right now. And how do we opt use AI to optimize customer service present day right now, but also what are the products of the future? Because like you said, if you're P P a P POS company, the vendor could provide this for you. And it was just an add-on to your current subscription with them for 50 bucks a month or a hundred bucks a month or 200 bucks a month, or even 500 bucks a month. You're going to be like, wait a minute.

Steve Grass (45:08)

Exactly. Click. Right?

Brad (45:12)

Yeah.

Clay (45:14)

You're saving me how much a year in wasted inventory in overstocked inventory, or, or you're avoiding member dissatisfaction by understocked inventory. All of these things make the brand experience and make the profitability. feed your P and L statements. Right. And so anything that's going to make.

Steve Grass (45:34)

Yeah, 500 bucks a month is

nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's a drop in the bucket. When, you know, if you think about if you really want to do that, like you need, you need to actually hire somebody, right? You're not going to pay them 500 bucks a month, right?

Clay (45:38)

It's absolutely nothing, but for these software companies.

Yeah,

no, exactly. That's like, you know, our shameless plug of our software, the voice AI software is going to do incredible things, incredible, incredible, incredible things, because the natural language processing capabilities of these software right now and the speed it can operate is phenomenal. And the limitation is only about applications. One second.

just about the applications, the integrations and what the APIs, which is tech term for essentially like a tether between two different softwares and you're into your patching them together. APIs can go, Omni direction or like, sorry, unidirectional is like one direction. It can go the other direction or it can go bidirectional. So the AIs can be feeding input into your systems.

Steve Grass (46:43)

Yeah, so they can talk to each other, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Clay (47:01)

but it can also be taking, sorry, feeding output and giving input into other systems. So you can have them speaking to each other. So when one transaction happens at your point of sale, it sends a ping, updates the AI. It doesn't need to be feeding information into your, I technically it could because do you, I don't know, do you guys, your restaurant software, if someone wanted to go and order, you know,

a wagyu beef burger and you guys only have X amount of wagyu beef kicking around in the, in the fridge and any given day, or month. and inventories were out, let's just say, and you couldn't restock on it. The AI would, could you could tell and that it could go right. Sorry, say again.

Steve Grass (47:41)

You could, you could technically.

We could technically, we don't utilize the recipe functionality of it just because we have such a small team. So we don't have somebody dedicated to be able to, and my chef isn't exactly technologically inclined for him to get in there and start building out recipes. 60 year old Sherlanken man, great dude, great at cooking food, just his son and daughter can only help him.

out so much when it comes to computers. So, you know, if we use that, yeah, I think it would tell us if there was a stock out, but I don't know that for sure because we haven't used it.

Clay (48:30)

For sure. That's what I'm saying. I don't know how you're, never, I've not spent one minute admittedly in your guy, that specific software. but.

I digress the voice AI, what it can do is you can tell it anything. And with its training parameters and with its integrations and with its instructions and with what it's been prompted and configured to do, it can do anything. One of the applications we were thinking, kind of one of the first ones we came up with, Brad, because we have conversations like this.

Brad and I on the podcast we've done and in live time, we're just coming up with new ideas for new applications in conversation that wouldn't have come up unless we were spitballing like this and going back and forth with each other. But one of them is just a voice AI backup for the restaurant. So if you guys don't have an app where you order your food, if someone wants to order food at your restaurant, how do they order food? Do they have to come in and be seated at the restaurant or can they call in and order food on the phone in advance?

Steve Grass (49:31)

calling and ordering the phone but you know does a you know is a $18 an hour server is she going to pick up the phone if she's doing one thing and it's right like we don't have it we don't concierge.

Clay (49:44)

Exactly. And so a voice AI receptionist for your restaurant could be running the phone line there. And maybe on the 16th hole, the 15th hole, we have a little laminated QR code or a sticker you put on a a little post that we could just post it in an inconspicuous place with a little QR code. And it says hungry question mark, scan this and call the restaurant.

We'll have your hot food ready free and your cold drink ready free when you get back to the restaurant, when you've done your last hole. And they just scan it, phone number comes up, hit the phone number. The voice AI receptionist answers the phone and says, you know, hey, this is, sorry, I forgot the name of your club already. San Andres East, sorry. You've reached San Andres East restaurant. How can we help you today?

Steve Grass (50:23)

St. Angeles East, yeah.

Brad (50:24)

Yeah.

Clay (50:30)

And they say, ah, you know, we want to put an order in. We'll be, we'll be at the clubhouse in about 15, 20 minutes, maybe half an hour. Can we put an order in? It'll say, great. What do you want? Go back and forth, take all their orders, confirm all their orders, get the names. know, Steve wants a cheeseburger. Clay wants a steak and fries and Brad wants a steak and eggs and over easy. All the details you would give to a server, you just give to the AI. It can summarize it all.

And then with a PR with advanced mode, you'd have integrated with your order system. And then it would just put the order into the system, which would then just like a cashier was punching it into the system, which then makes a chit, which goes to your, don't have you guys system with the line cooks. Do they get a physical chip or is it computer assist computer screen or computer chip?

Steve Grass (51:15)

It can

spit out into a receipt printer,

Clay (51:18)

There you go. So that's it. The guy would call in at the end of the conversation, computer prints out the check, check goes into the back, but then it could say on the chip or it could say even a note. they'll be here in 30 minutes. just time it. So it's ready in 30 minutes or, or they'll be here in 10 minutes. Is it possible to put a little rush on that one? They took a little time ordering either way it can get the member to have when they show up and they walk in the restaurant.

And they could say, and we want the table by the window overlooking the South view. We want that table too. So all that information can be put into this and then it could be sent to the chit for the cook. The food and beverage manager or director would also be having a phone in their pocket. Most likely they a cell phone in their pocket. They'll get an email notification saying Steve and Clay and Brad are just wrapping up. They ordered their food and drinks. Here's what they want.

just so that they're aware that this order has been made in the system and they don't have to do anything. They have to punch it in, they don't have to talk to the chef. It's being handled, but they're just, it's a notification. It's just a point of awareness. So then when they watch Stephen Clay and Brad walk in the front entrance of the restaurant, the manager knows what they're coming in for. They look over at their table down by the south facing end of the restaurant.

Steve Grass (52:35)

It's North- Northwest at the club, but it's okay. You wouldn't know that.

Clay (52:37)

Northwest,

they favorite, nice best view that they want, right? And they look over and they see the guy's food is sitting on the table and just bringing it brought out just right now. And they go and the greeter, the server greets Steve and Clay and Brad and say, hey guys, we got your table over here, food's ready, drinks from the table. And you walk in and you're just like, bang, let's go. That's amazing.

Steve Grass (52:42)

Great.

Amazing.

Right? It's like,

that's your mic drop moment, right? Right?

Brad (53:00)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Clay (53:02)

What restaurants

can do that? Where is that the norm in most golf clubs? Right? That's not the norm in most golf clubs based on the conversations Brad, you and I have had. That's not the norm. There might be one exceptional club right now that already has that, but that's where it's going. That's again, where it is going. And in two to three, three to five years, if you don't have that, people are going to be coming to your club, your members and guests or whoever are going to be like, Hey, you guys still don't have that, that voice.

that voice bot that does the orders in the restaurant. You guys still don't have that, huh? And you'd be like, yeah, we still don't have that one. We probably should get that one, huh? Does everyone have that one? And I was like, well, I think you guys might be one of the last ones who don't have it. So yeah, it might be time to get it now.

Steve Grass (53:36)

Set.

Well, you

know, it's definitely stimulating a lot of thought for me and how we can introduce something like that for...

On course order, we don't have a beverage cart, right? So we just run food, but if somebody wants to call us, what happens if we miss their call? They're obviously gonna be a little ticked. But also too is to understand, we always wanna know if they're coming for dinner. Are they coming in for dinner or not? We don't have a tea sheet that we can, the day before is to try to forecast when we're gonna be open, when we're gonna be closed. We wanna try to be open as long as we can for a membership.

And you know, we're not a typical restaurant where we're not a restaurant like we don't even pretend to be a restaurant We're you know, we're a food and beverage amenity, right? So, you know no different than than your locker room, right? So how do we how do we continue to make that better? and I think that would be definitely a good start there and

in a great way. If the application worked and pushed, either pushed into the system or pushed it to a place where it was easily accessible and it made sense, I think that would be awesome.

Clay (54:54)

Yeah. And that, just one, for example, I could, like said, we could have, we could have multiple, conversations where we just riff about all the possible applications and riff the pros and cons and could it be done? Could it not be done? How soon could it be done? And like, that's the goal of this podcast is it just sort of constant,

Steve Grass (54:56)

I'm sure there's a million, yeah.

Brad (54:59)

Yeah

Clay (55:15)

Episode after episode of insights, aha moments, getting the gears going in people's heads when they think what's possible. Is that a fit for our brand? Is that a fit for our club? Does that address a burning pain that we experience in our club on a recurring basis? Because all best solutions are responses to burning, recurring, persistent pains and problems. So I always say to every manager who's listening to this list your top three.

biggest pains, recurring pains, burning problems from the management admin staff side of things, and or from the member golfer customer clientele side of things. If you make a top three for both of those, the clientele side of things and a top three for the management and staff side of things, and...

Again, just get in touch with us and tell us what your issues are. We may have our software may be able to fix that right away at the gate, or it might not be able to fix it right now, right away out of the gate. But it gives us something to focus on with our R &D and our ongoing advanced mode development. the basic mode, Steve, do you know a little basic mode, advanced mode with the voice AI? Have you looked at our website at all and dug in yet?

Steve Grass (56:28)

No, not really.

Brad and I, we chatted a little bit about it, but we didn't get too deep into it.

Clay (56:34)

In a super, super, super short nutshell, advanced mode is on the tightest leash we can put it on. And all it's designed to do is get three, four or five bits of information. It's optional. You can choose what of this you want it to get, but it's phone number, name, email, address, and reason for calling. That's it. It will not get anything else. It won't do anything else. You can tell it to do stuff. You can ask it things. It will keep bringing the conversation back.

to those points and only when it gets all those points, it will then say, okay, anything else can help with anything else. And once you say, no, that's all okay, great. Someone will be able to be in touch with you very shortly and we'll, help you out with what you shared. And then you and whoever else would get an email, it gives them a summary of what the call was about, what they want, is it urgent, yada, yada, yada. That's all basic mode can do. Advanced mode has like, I think 5,000 words we can program it with.

FAQs, I can take your entire, all the content of your website, have it read your website, index every single word on your website, and now it can provide FAQ for your entire website. So someone called and they had a question, as long as we give it the answers, the common questions and the common answers, it can now answer every single question anybody would ever, a member or a prospective member would ever call to ask for each department. We could have FAQ for each department. And so they could just call a line, hey,

How much is this? Can I do that? And it can answer so that a human wouldn't have to call them back and answer that question. And if it can't answer the question, it would then say, sorry, I actually don't have an answer for that, but I'm to pass it on to someone who does and they'll get back to you very shortly. So it can answer every question you tell it to answer. And if a new question comes in that has not been answered before, well, guess what? That's the next question we program it to and say, but if someone answers, ask this question, which you didn't have an answer for last time, well, now you have the answer for it. And so over time, it becomes this expanding knowledge base and database.

Steve Grass (58:16)

Fantastic.

Clay (58:33)

of all of your business information that a member might need to tap into and know. And then they'd never have to ask a person for it ever again.

Steve Grass (58:39)

That's

amazing. Well, you know what I'm thinking, you know, more and more we want to try to balance tradition versus, you know, innovation. You know, you're just talking to somebody. That's all the membership member sees, right? The innovations on the back end, right? And creating the efficiency. that's, you know, super great. And just thinking about that more, I think there's a lot of value.

So, you know good for you guys for coming up with a with a little bit of a home run there

Clay (59:11)

We're just getting started. And again, this software with hardware and infrastructure was built by multi-billion dollar companies that, you know, have a big stake in the future. We're just very little guys trying to tap into this niche application and niche use of this software and make it as valuable as possible and as easily accessible and as easily usable for members and for our golf club management clientele so that everyone can benefit from it and enjoy it.

get back to the fun parts of golf, which as you know, we've talked about Brad, it's not data entry, it's not spreadsheets, it's not multiple days and hours in front of a computer, it's interacting with the members, it's golfing, it's face to face.

Steve Grass (59:43)

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly it, right? That's it. Keeps it personal, right? It's still keeping it personal, you know, even though it's technology. Yeah.

Clay (1:00:03)

Exactly.

Brad (1:00:04)

Exactly. I think that's good for today, guys. think that's a... We could ramble here. We could go hours and hours. We can always have you back on too, Steve. We'll have you on in the future too, because there's so much here to jump into and to divulge and discover. And that's what we're getting from these calls. And I think that's the real value add here to the industry as a whole, is this think tank of information. Like you said earlier, right?

Clay (1:00:08)

That's good. That's, that's right on the hour on the money right there.

Steve Grass (1:00:09)

Great.

We can keep going exactly right from now on, right? But I gotta do it with a different word.

Brad (1:00:34)

in this industry, a great industry, they're always trying to help each other grow, at least the good leaders. And they want to leave the industry in the hands of those who have information as opposed to just being like, well, here's the ball, you know, go play the game. And it's like, well, I don't know how to use this ball. So it's like, okay, here's how you use the ball, right? So I think that's a really huge value add for everything. So Steve, it's been great having you on the show.

Your insights into balancing tradition with innovation and your forward-thinking approach to golf management are very helpful and hopefully some listeners will get value for their needs from what you shared.

Steve Grass (1:01:10)

Thank you very much for having me. Appreciate it guys.

Clay (1:01:13)

Yeah, absolutely. It's really, it's been a pleasure and I really, I thank you for doing this, jumping on. You are officially our second guest on the show. And so we look forward to speaking with you more in the future. And if you'd like to join us for another conversation, any other closing thoughts that you'd like to share before we wrap up?

Steve Grass (1:01:22)

Nice.

No, you

guys keep me in the loop with anything you guys think that's going to change the game and I'd love to know about it. Be one of the first to know about it, that is. So, love hearing about it and keep up the good work, guys. This is great.

Clay (1:01:49)

Right on, thanks Steve.

Brad (1:01:50)

Thank you, Steve. Really appreciate it.

Steve Grass (1:01:52)

My pleasure guys, thank you.

Clay (1:01:52)

Yep. yep.

And thanks for listening. everyone who's listening, thanks for listening to the ACE call AI podcast where we help golf club managers win with AI. We'll see you next time.