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In this episode of The AceCall.ai Podcast, we sit down with ⁠Murray McCourt⁠, General Manager and Executive Professional at ⁠The Ranch Golf & Country Club⁠ in Edmonton, Alberta—one of the most in-demand public courses in Canada.

Murray is a rare blend of operator, owner, and leader. Under his guidance, The Ranch has become a case study in what’s possible when legendary culture, strategic differentiation, and long-term thinking collide.

We dive deep into how Murray and his team have:

✅ Built a combined 94 years of staff loyalty—with 10-year contracts across key roles

✅ Hosted over 190 tournaments per year while maintaining pace, quality, and culture

✅ Turned a $0 loyalty program into a $16M+ revenue engine with 12,500 app users

✅ Used COVID as a turning point to eliminate no-shows and shorten round times

✅ Created a guest experience so strong, golfers consider it a win just to get a tee time

We also explore Murray’s business mindset, his origin story from junior hockey GM to golf course owner, and how he’s thinking about AI tools that reduce busywork and let staff focus more on hospitality and service.

And if all that wasn't cool enough, Murray also hosts his own radio show on Edmonton Sports Talk which is now in its 7th year! If you enjoy this episode and want to hear more of Murray's timeless and timely wisdom and insight, check out ⁠The VIP Golf Show⁠.

Whether you manage a public, semi-private, or private club, Murray’s clarity, commitment, and culture-first leadership model is a powerful template for long-term success.

🎧 Listen now to hear how one Alberta golf course rose to the top—and what you can learn from the man who helped it get there.

👉 Don’t forget to subscribe to ⁠The AceCall.ai Podcast⁠ wherever you listen to audios for more expert interviews and insights at the intersection of hospitality, leadership, and AI in golf and other private club operations.

🔗 ⁠Available on Apple, Spotify, and all major podcast platforms⁠

#GolfClubLeadership #GolfManagement #PublicGolf #GolfBusiness #StaffRetention #CustomerLoyalty #ClubCulture #MurrayMcCourt #TheRanchGolf #AIForGolf #VoiceAI #TheAceCallPodcast #GolfInnovation #TeeSheetOptimization #GolfOperations

Legendary Culture, Loyal Staff & Overflow Tee Sheets: What Every Public Course Can Learn from Murray McCourt & The Ranch

📍 Featuring insights from Murray McCourt, General Manager & Executive Professional at The Ranch Golf and Country Club in Edmonton, Alberta

Public golf courses across North America are facing familiar challenges—staff turnover, inconsistent guest experiences, rising operational costs, and volatile demand.

But at The Ranch Golf & Country Club, General Manager Murray McCourt has flipped the script.

Under his leadership, The Ranch has become one of Alberta’s busiest public courses, hosting 190+ tournaments per season, building a team with 94 years of combined tenure, and launching a loyalty app that has generated over $16 million in tracked revenue.

We sat down with Murray for an episode of The AceCall.ai Podcast to understand how he’s done it—and what other public club leaders can learn from his approach.

Know Exactly Who You Are (And Who You’re Not)

“A lot of businesses don’t know who they are. They try to be everything to everybody, and it just doesn’t work.” – Murray McCourt

If there is one piece of wisdom we hear over and over again from the majority of GMs and owners we interview, it's this - know who you are and who you are not.

One of the first things Murray emphasized was clarity.

The Ranch doesn’t try to be a membership club.

They don’t compete on prestige or exclusivity. Instead, they’ve doubled down on being the best possible public golf experience, built on three clear pillars:

• Premier conditions

• Impeccable service

• Unmatched value

Every operational decision at The Ranch flows from these priorities.

If your club is struggling with inconsistency or mixed feedback, a great first step is to revisit your identity.

Are you trying to do too much?

Do you really know what niche you serve best?

Legendary Culture Starts with Long-Term Thinking

“Most of our core team will retire here. That didn’t happen by accident.” – Murray McCourt

In an industry known for high turnover, The Ranch is an anomaly. Murray’s leadership team has a combined 94 years of tenure, and many of them are working under 5- to 10-year employment contracts—something virtually unheard of in public golf.

Murray sees staffing not as an expense, but as a long-term asset. His contracts include:

• A 10-year agreement with his Executive Chef

• A 10-year contract with the Clubhouse & Events Manager

• Employment-to-retirement deals with multiple leaders, including his Office Manager

Why this matters: When employees know they’re secure, they stop looking.

They buy into the mission. They build relationships with members. And over time, the guest experience becomes effortless and consistent.

Don’t Just Hire—Recruit with Intention

“When I know what I want in a team member, I don’t post a job. I go get them.” – Murray McCourt

Murray doesn’t rely on job boards or hope the right resume floats in. Instead, he scouts. He follows careers. He builds relationships with future hires long before there's an opening.

For example:

• He recruited his events coordinator, Trevor, after watching him excel in roles at the PGA of Alberta.

• He hired a head professional who had worked under him years earlier—and still works at The Ranch today.

This mindset flips the script on reactive hiring. And it ensures cultural alignment and fast integration.

Build a Loyalty Program That Actually Drives Revenue

“We couldn’t find a loyalty app for golf. So we built one.” – Murray McCourt

Seven years ago, Murray launched a custom-built loyalty app. The result?

• 12,500+ users

• $16M+ in tracked revenue

• Direct influence on tournament bookings, daily play, and merchandise sales

Players earn points for all spend at the club—green fees, food and beverage, retail—and redeem them for free golf, equipment, or perks.

This isn’t about discounting. It’s about value stacking and creating a “why here” moment when golfers are choosing between similar public courses.

Eliminate No-Shows with Prepaid Tee Times

“Most courses missed the opportunity COVID gave us. We didn’t.” – Murray McCourt

During COVID, prepayment was mandatory at most courses. Afterward, nearly everyone reverted. Murray didn’t.

At The Ranch, you now prepay for your tee time. No exceptions. And it’s been a game-changer:

• No more no-shows

• No more “book for four, show up with two”

• No chasing down cancellations or last-minute holes

But here’s the kicker: Murray didn’t just keep the extra revenue. He reinvested it.

He widened tee-time intervals to 10 minutes (from 8–9), improving pace-of-play. Most rounds finish between 3:55 and 4:05.

And yes, golfers still love it. “People cheer when they get a tee time at The Ranch,” Murray told us. Demand hasn’t dropped—it’s grown.

Create Ambassadors, Not Marshals

“A marshal feels like a cop. An ambassador feels like a host.” – Murray McCourt

At The Ranch, on-course staff aren’t called marshals. They’re ambassadors—and the difference is more than just semantics.

Ambassadors are:

• Trained to greet and thank players

• Equipped with candy, golf balls, and even beer coupons to diffuse tension

• Empowered to reward positive behavior, not just punish poor pace

This small language and mindset shift helps keep the course moving without conflict. And it leaves golfers feeling cared for, not policed.

Thank Guests After the Round

“Most clubs do a decent job welcoming guests. But almost none thank them.” – Murray McCourt

One simple tweak Murray made was adding a thank-you video at the 18th green via GPS screens on golf carts. It’s a small, scalable gesture that caps off the experience with appreciation.

The message? “Thanks for spending your day with us. We hope you had a great time.”

This reinforces positive memory, encourages word-of-mouth, and boosts rebooking.

AI in Golf: Not Someday—Today

“AI saved me hours on a recent presentation. It was better than what I could’ve done solo.” – Murray McCourt

Though Murray doesn’t consider himself a tech expert, he’s bullish on the role of AI in golf operations.

Here’s how he’s already using it:

• Writing radio show questions and interview prep

• Drafting communications and presentation outlines

• Vetting grant applications (with 99.6% success rate via an AI tool)

• Exploring Voice AI to handle booking calls and reduce phone traffic

He even encourages hiring candidates who use AI effectively—viewing it as a new form of literacy, not laziness.

If You Do What Everyone Else Does…

“…why would someone choose your course?” – Murray McCourt

This might be the core takeaway from the entire interview. Differentiation isn't just a marketing gimmick. It's the foundation of your operation.

From:

• 10-year staff contracts

• to prepaid tee sheets

• to app-based loyalty

• to marshals turned ambassadors

Murray and his team have designed a category-of-one golf experience.

They’re not the cheapest. They’re not the fanciest. But they’ve made themselves the hardest course to get a tee time at—which might be the best business metric of all.

Final Thoughts: What Can You Borrow From The Ranch?

You don’t need to implement every one of these ideas overnight.

But here are a few starter questions every public course GM or owner should ask after hearing Murray’s story:

• Have we clearly defined what kind of club we are—and what we’re not?

• Are we creating long-term employment paths for our best people?

• Do we have a loyalty program that actually drives behavior?

• Are our tee sheets maximizing experience and revenue?

• Could we rebrand any staff roles to reflect hospitality, not authority?

• Are we using AI to reduce low-value tasks and boost strategic output?

If the answer to any of these is “no,” you might have a big opportunity to improve operations and member satisfaction—without raising prices or cutting corners.

🎧 Want to hear the full conversation with Murray McCourt?
Listen to the episode here:
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📞 Want to explore AI at your own club?
Call +1 (866) 838-8581 and ask for your free copy of The Golf Club A.I. Amplifier™.

Podcast Episode Transcription

Clay (00:03)

Welcome to the Ace Call AI podcast where we help golf club managers win with AI. Owning and operating a golf club today is harder than ever. So we created simple AI solutions and a podcast to make it easier for you. I'm Clayton Elliott.

Brad (00:18)

And I'm Brad Milligan. Together, we bring a mix of entrepreneurial innovation and decades of golf club management experience to help you optimize your club, increase profitability, and elevate the golfer experience. So let's dive in. Today, we're thrilled to welcome a true leader in Canadian golf operations, Murray McCourt. Murray is the general manager and executive professional at the Ranch Golf and Country Club in Edmonton, Alberta. Under his leadership, the ranch has become one of the busiest public courses in the province.

hosting nearly 190 tournaments this season alone. Murray is also the author of Outside the T-Box, a book that delves into his personal journey and business philosophies in the golf industry. He's been a prominent voice in golf media, hosting the VIP Golf Show on Edmonton Sports Talk, now in its seventh season. With a background that includes 11 years as a junior hockey general manager, winning eight championships, Murray brings a unique perspective on team building and leadership.

His approach to golf management is both innovative and grounded in real world experience. Murray, welcome to the Ace Call AI podcast. We're excited to have you here today.

Murray McCourt (01:26)

Yeah, thanks very much. Appreciate you reaching out and inviting me to be on with you.

Brad (01:31)

Thank you, sir. Yeah, so I wanted to start by talking about your transition from a successful junior hockey general manager to leading one of Alberta's top golf courses. ⁓ It's a fascinating and uncommon career progression. Can you tell us a bit of your background and Genesis story and touch on how your experiences in hockey influence your approach to golf management?

Clay (01:31)

Yeah, thanks, Marie.

Murray McCourt (01:54)

I was actually a manager and head pro at a golf course at the same time. I was a hockey general manager. So it ⁓ was kind of one and the same. But I grew up in a small town here in Stetler, Alberta. And ⁓ easy access to a golf course when you're just learning and growing up, which was fabulous. I basically rode my bike to the golf course, stayed there all day and walked around the golf course three, four, five, six, seven times in a day and ⁓ just never stopped playing. And I knew at a very young age that

Brad (02:00)

There you go.

Murray McCourt (02:22)

I wanted to do what I'm doing now. And ⁓ so I tailored my entire high school path on what I wanted to do. I wasn't taking physics and biology, I was taking typing and business law and things that I knew were gonna benefit me in my chosen career path. And so I did apply to the San Diego Golf Academy to go to college and fortunate enough to get in there and that was the big.

start to my journey. At the time it was the most prestigious golf management school in the world and I was very fortunate to get there and that led me down the career where I still am and I'm not leaving. it's been an awesome start to be able to know what I wanted to do from a very young age and then be able to live that dream through.

Brad (03:13)

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's fascinating because I know a lot of like young people these days, they, kind of struggle with, uh, figuring out what to do. So that is a nice thing. You kind of grow up, uh, you know, interacting with golf and then just having that love of golf. was the same thing for me when I started working at a golf course, I was like, this is such a wonderful place to be. And, uh, you can learn so much about people there and it's really a microcosm of life. So, uh, yeah, I always loved those stories where it's, like somebody kind of grew up around golf and they were just like, this is it. This is what I want to do.

Murray McCourt (03:43)

Yeah, yeah, it is a great issue. In my town there wasn't a golf pro when I, there at all when I was growing up. So I didn't have that kind of mentorship that led me into this. But I somehow I just knew that this is what I wanted to do even though I didn't have a lot of experience around it, even at the golf course that I was at. But, you know, it is a fabulous industry. And it is tough in the beginning when you're an assistant pro and

You're not making much money. The only way you're really making money is you've got to get on that lesson T and to be able to put some food on your plate and a roof over your head. that's kind of the nature of the beast. But if you hang with it and stick with it and the opportunities will kind of eventually come your way and end up being a very successful career for you.

Brad (04:34)

Yeah, yeah, 100%. It's a, you're right. It's a grind in those early years where you're, you know, you're, you're not making a ton of money. ⁓ You know, you're, you're having, you have to get resourceful as a golf pro. found like clinics were a really nice way of doing things. ⁓ If you can kind of tap into the corporate markets, you know, do do corporate clinics, obviously, ⁓ camps are fantastic. So there's lots of ways that people have to become come

Murray McCourt (04:42)

you

Brad (05:01)

become creative in the industry to make a buck. you're right, if you hang in there long enough, you prove that you're a viable asset to your operation, you're going to get noticed as that individual and then be hireable somewhere else, either at your current location for, say, jumping from an assistant pro to an associate pro to a head professional ⁓ or going elsewhere. You're going to have that resume and notoriety.

Murray McCourt (05:25)

Yeah, for sure. And you know, I was very fortunate because of my schooling. And then I chose to start my apprenticeship at the Wolf Creek Golf Resort here in Alberta at the time that I was there was the 14th ranked golf course in the country. And ⁓ Ryan Bold and the Bold family were tremendous to work for and great mentors of mine early on. And I was fortunate enough to get a head pro job when I was 23 years old, which is pretty rare. you know, based on

the career path that I knew I was on, I was ready and I felt ready and it might have been naive at the time a little bit that I felt ready because I was only 23, but there was more than one golf course that offered me the head pro job at that time. So ⁓ I guess I was ready because it turned out that way, but for the golf courses to ⁓ have that faith in me and trust in me to empower me with that.

know, type of a job at such a young age, you know, a great opportunity and certainly ⁓ appreciated everything that, you know, has come my way because of it.

Brad (06:32)

Yeah, that's a great Genesis story there. ⁓ So you mentioned in our correspondences that your core management team has a combined 94 years at the ranch and that most of it is, if not all, will retire there. That's impressive and something most clubs only dream of. And I'm guessing it's definitely not something that happened by accident. What strategies have you adopted to build and retain such a dedicated team?

Murray McCourt (06:44)

Yeah.

Well, I mean it was a journey to get there. When I got this job, ⁓ with my path it was a little interesting too because I signed a contract as the executive pro and general manager for a two-year deal when I first got here. After the first year the owners wanted to rip it up and sign me to a longer deal so I signed a three-year deal. The first year of that they wanted to rip it up and I signed a four-year deal and after the first year of that they offered me a lifetime contract that included ownership. I'm also owner of the ranch and

Brad (07:27)

Wow.

Clay (07:29)

Right on.

Murray McCourt (07:29)

And

with that I had the full autonomy to run this place as I want to run it and I didn't don't really never have since that point really answered anybody. I they're my partners and so huge decision sure we talk about but in terms of running this operation it's it's my baby and and I do it. So go back to that staff I inherited two incredible people at that time ⁓ Derek Senko our superintendent

⁓ He had been a superintendent here for a few years when I came and also Sean Piercy, the head pro, he was an assistant pro here and they had let go the head pro so I had to hire a head pro and I chose Sean as the head pro and because I wanted his familiarity with the operation and the business to help me as since it was a new operation to me and so I inherited those two guys and

They're still here today and they're loyal and passionate and dedicated. so yeah, they're in employment agreements that I have with them that'll basically keep them here until they retire. They have zero interest in going anywhere and they share my loyalty and passion for the ranch in a huge way. And they've been very supportive of me and my vision and just bought right into what I want and have turned this place into and they've been a huge part of it.

Over time, I had to piece together the rest of it. The food and beverage operation, when I got here, it was run like a cafeteria. They didn't have a proper snack shack that to enable, the snack shack was out of the restaurant, so they didn't have the ability to give proper table service the way that it was all set up. I had to make a lot of changes in that area, and it took some time to get it set up the way that it is now, but now our head chef has been here for.

a long time and he's in the middle of a 10-year employment agreement, which is something that's kind of unheard of in this industry. I have an events manager and ⁓ clubhouse manager, so he runs the front of the house and ⁓ organizes the vast majority of our tournaments along with ⁓ a couple events quarters that we have, and so he's in the middle of a 10-year contract. Our office manager has been here now.

13 years and she's in an agreement until she retires which is fairly quickly, she's 65 now so she's probably got another year or two left with us I hope. But it took me some time over the years to build what I view as the perfect team for the ranch and they're all so passionate about what we do and what we have here and ⁓ it's so great to have them and they're

Vision is my vision and we just work so well together as a team and it makes my life easy but it makes the experience that our guests have when they come to play the ranch so spectacular because we have such an amazing team in place and so the consistency year over year over year of what you're getting for an experience here is the same and that's important.

Brad (10:41)

Yeah, Murray, that says a lot about your operation. And I found that at good operations, ones that are very successful as they have staff that that stick around and want to be there year after year that that's that's kind of a key indicator. When I'm looking at a golf club, I'm, know, if there's if there's a new head pro every single season, it's like, there's some sort of issue there either with it's with ownership, if it's if it has one owner.

⁓ you know, it could be with a general manager. You don't quite know, but you're like, that's, that's kind of a red flag. you know, seeing an operation like yours, where you have all of these staff who, who love being there or committed to the property and who take ownership, right? They might not be owners like yourself, but they take ownership of the property. I think that says so much, ⁓ about your operation. So, you know, golf's an industry known for high turnover. ⁓ that's just the way that it is. What do you believe keeps your team motivated?

and committed.

Murray McCourt (11:37)

Well, it's the culture that we've created here. ⁓ Our business is extremely successful and we have it just down to a T what we do. And the service that we provide is exceptional. we reward our staff too. Things like... ⁓

Big big year-end parties gifts like I have a bag of tricks in my in my desk that if someone does something that's over and above I'll reward them with a gift card to a local restaurant or something like that and You know we closed down one night in September and do a staff golf tournament and so we we appreciate our staff and I make sure and like what really ultimately ⁓ That's my biggest job is to take care of the staff and make sure they're happy and you know, I'm right there with them

sometimes right in the trenches doing the work that needs to get done to get big tournaments on the golf course and whatnot. And so it's not like people work, for me we all work together, working towards the same goal which is creating a great experience for our customers. And it even goes beyond that management team. Like our associate pro is in a contract deal, he wants to retire, our assistant superintendent just signed a 10 year agreement. So many of our outside services staffs, our kitchen staff, our ground staff, they've been here for.

five, 10, 15 years, so many of them. And again, it just speaks to the culture of how we run our business and how people are buying in. They want us to be more and more successful every year and they're just a huge part of it. Every single person that works here is important because they're all touching our customers in some way. And if one person doesn't meet the standard that

we expect as a team, you know, then that's an issue. So we just build that culture out right from the ground up with every single person that's here and how we treat them and how we in turn want them to treat our guests.

Brad (13:42)

Yeah, that's a I think if people are listening to this, ⁓ they can take a lot away from that alone is that you're you're hiring people for five or 10 years and you're believing in them that much to offer them contracts that are that long because that's that's unheard of for assistance in any capacity. You don't really hear that. It's sort of on this year by year basis like, you know, we'll hire this person and hopefully they work out and ⁓ you know, and and and

Murray McCourt (13:57)

cool

near.

Brad (14:11)

It's like you just kind of go through a year and you might have some end of season day new mall where you're saying, hey, how do you think it went? And so on and so forth. But to put that confidence in your staff that says so much. I'm sure that, like you said, that when people come to the property, they're going to feel that atmosphere that there's so many staff members that are so bought into the culture there. I think that that's massive. So anybody listening to this, that's a

Murray McCourt (14:34)

Mm-hmm.

Brad (14:37)

very key takeaway because I haven't heard of that a lot in the industry of assistance specifically being offered such long contracts. So that's pretty epic over there.

Murray McCourt (14:48)

When you have the opportunity to hire great people, you need to keep them. ⁓ Scott Westman is our associate golf professional. I've known him since I was 17 years old and he was a head pro in his journey at a couple of different golf courses ⁓ in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and then he was the head pro at the Dinosaur Trail Golf Course in Drumheller. He saw his time kind of coming to an end there and he was getting a little on in Asia.

not crazy old or anything and he reached out to me and asked if there was an opportunity here for him and I'm like yeah we'll make an opportunity for you instantly. ⁓ I talked to Sean or head pro and told him all about Scott and his experience and I said to Sean like this isn't a threat to you this is your this guy could be your right hand here for a long time and and so Sean bought into it and I mean now like he's been Sean's right right hand for over a decade now and ⁓

He's not going anywhere until he retires. His son, Scott Westman's son now works here and has worked here for probably five or six years. It's just that, again, I just talk about that culture of how everyone just loves being around here. ⁓ And people love being here as a golfer too because they get a great experience as well when they come. if our staff is happy and our staff feels appreciated, they're in turn gonna appreciate and take care of our guests the way.

that we expect them to be. So it all works hand in hand.

Clay (16:20)

Definitely. I just want to say it's the synergistic relationships and connection points where one plus one plus one plus one is five. But it's not when you're a team one plus one plus one plus one is one. It's like it's multi-multiplies. It's a multiplier effect because everyone who's worked together for that long, they know each other so well. They know each other is

moods, their rhythms, their strengths, their weaknesses, they can tap in with each other. Just sometimes with making eye contact, with a little head nod or something like that, you kind of, you, the situation and the scenario around you, people can operate without needing to communicate too much. there's just like a smooth operation that it takes time. It's like any sports team or hockey team or whatever. It's like, they've been playing with each other for years and years and years, the nuances, the subtleties become so apparent to those people.

But to everyone else looking in, they don't see those things. They don't register those things. And you can't get that if you keep replacing people. People keep leaving. And if you replace, it's impossible. You have to start not from scratch, but you have to bring a new person in, teach them how to get them up to speed. And talent acquisition is a very expensive business. Recruitment fees are astronomical in every industry because it's so difficult to find the right talent and get them

what they're looking for at the right time when they are available to be looking for it. So once you get them, it's worth it to keep them. It's worth it to make those long-term commitments where they know, because all employees, if they're happy where they are, but they know at any point in time due to a year-to-year contract, they could be let go. It's a possibility, even though it's not being openly and explicitly discussed, it's always on the table that that could happen.

Murray McCourt (17:55)

Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Clay (18:14)

then they can't help but think of their own best interests and always keep their eye open for other things happening and what's going on out there because there's just an underlying uncertainty that they can't rule out. But with a five-year contract or 10-year contract, they don't have to think about that. They don't have to think about like, it's good here, but you know, who knows how long I'll be here for, right? So I got to look over there and look over there. They don't even look anymore. And when they can just be on that team and they know they got a long, again, back to sports and

Back to hockey, it even means professional sports. Someone signs a five-year or 10-year contract with a team. They can build a team around those few core players who have those long, expensive contracts. They can get other support players to come in and commit because they know that captain or that star player is going to be there for a long time and they can be a right-hand man or a background support and it magnifies. It really multiplies and magnifies all efforts from everyone.

Murray McCourt (19:12)

Well, a couple things that I'll piggyback on that is when you're an assistant pro getting into the industry, it is important to get some different experiences as well. ⁓ You shouldn't necessarily stay at one club for your entire time ⁓ because those different experiences you can get elsewhere. You can grow and learn from the goods and the bads of different operations to get you to where you want to get to in your career. But the other thing that I think is important to take away about that is ⁓

When you are in any business, you have to do things that set yourself apart from your competition. Whether you're as a business or whether you're as an individual trying to elevate in your career, if you just do as a business or as an individual in a career what everybody else is doing, what sets you apart and why are people gonna be drawn to you?

And so as an example, a couple of hires that I did here, one was Scott Westman. He reached out to me, I had a relationship with in the past and I followed along in his career and knew the successes that he'd had and the great things that he'd brought to his operations. But our events manager that I was talking about, Wizard, I had known him for years and he kind of got a raw deal at a club where he was the head professional and assistant manager of a golf club.

I said to him, you know, I'm probably gonna have a pretty good thing to offer you at the end of the year. so I didn't advertise for his position. I went after him because I knew who he was. I followed him in his career. I knew what I was getting. And he had the skill ⁓ and the traits that I needed and wanted in that position. And another example, our events coordinator, and we also want a promotional products company, Stuff Promotional Products, so we...

We sell anything and everything that you'd ever put a logo on. ⁓ we went like, so this other person we have on our team, Trevor Rio, I had known him for nine years. He worked for the PGA of Alberta and in different roles. And I was a board member of the PGA of Alberta for six years. And so I knew him and what he did in his work very intimately. And so he met a girl up here and was married and has a...

child ⁓ with his wife now and he was working remotely with the PGA but I had this opportunity ⁓ for him to be an events coordinator here and work in tough stock promotional products and so we had a really good year-round job and again when we knew what we wanted to hire we didn't advertise. I went after him and knew exactly what I was gonna get and because those

those Trevor and Adam, both what they did in their careers, they did things not what everybody else does, right? They set themselves apart and I knew that they were what I wanted for our operation. like I said, Adam's in the middle of a 10-year contract. Trevor has been here, he's in season three now, but he just signed a seven-year ⁓ employment agreement. So he's not going anywhere either now. So it just, adding pieces of the team that really fit.

but what you're doing elsewhere, it's important.

Clay (22:34)

Yeah, no, that makes total sense. And to be set apart, to have your unique ways of differentiation in a competitive market, it helps you stand out. And if your work precedes you in other places, then opportunities will come to you. You won't have to go banging on doors and pitching yourself and doing a little dance and selling yourself because your work speaks for itself. Your body of work speaks for for itself. And

in a small local market, where travels, people talk, people watch each other's clubs and pay attention to what's going on. there's, I imagine, events and mixers, actually, know, tournaments and things are there. They're interacting and there's a cross pollination in a way where, as when the opening presents itself, like you said, with your club, you didn't go to recruiters, you didn't go and put job postings out, you went right to the person you thought would be good fit.

and made a one-to-one conversation and presented it like that. And ⁓ that wouldn't have happened for those people if they hadn't done that work previously and to differentiate themselves. you know, I want to pause and just give our listeners a sense of the scale that you're operating at, because it's honestly, it's pretty wild. know, Brad mentioned that you guys are the busiest tournament course in Alberta, you know, running close to 190 tournaments this season alone.

And that's like you mentioned, that's not even counting daily fee play or your men's and ladies leagues, which are completely sold out with a five plus year waiting lists. You know, you're turning away as many tournaments as you're booking, like you said, and you could probably fill your course two or three times over every day just with public play. So, you know, that kind of volume, it's no joke and it didn't just happen overnight. So, you know, I'm curious with so many.

Murray McCourt (24:03)

Yeah.

Clay (24:24)

golf clubs, which you speak on the differentiation at the club level with so many golf clubs vying for attention and essentially competing at the local level in a zero sum game, right? There's only so many people playing golf and there's only so many places they can go. There's not like an infinite amount of golf course revenue going around in all the local golf courses, right? So how does the ranch set itself apart from your local competition and kind of operate in a league of your own?

and stay so busy from season open to season close.

Murray McCourt (24:57)

Yeah, well ultimately it comes down to we know exactly who we are as a business and we knock it out of the park in what we do. And there's a lot of businesses don't know who they are as a business and they try to be everything to everybody and that's something that you can't be. And if you're trying to be everything to everybody, you're probably not gonna do extremely well at any of it because you're spreading yourself too thin and your resources.

too thin, and like so we don't offer memberships here at the ranch. Why would anyone want to be a member here? But we couldn't give somebody the type of experience that they would want and deserve as a member of a golf club, so we don't do it. And so we know who we are in that space, and we have three pillars that we run our operation on, and the three are ⁓ premier conditions, our superintendent,

He knows this property inside out and backwards. He is so uber talented and so passionate about this place. And we are in always unbelievably good condition. And hats off to him for everything he does here because it is that way always. And he just does such a great job. The second part of that is impeccable service. And the way that we train our staff to interact with people.

is to take such great care of them. So a couple of examples of that is when a lot of golf courses, when they're just calling it next up on the first D, next up followed by and that's just how it goes. We have a starter that is gonna greet you and find out how much you played here, give you some, if you haven't played here very much, gonna give you some tips on how to play the golf course. We have GPS on our cart so we're gonna explain the GPS and how it works.

you know, has a really good conversation with you and makes you feel special, makes you feel welcome, makes you feel appreciated. And that's what all of our staff does. Our ground staff is trained to wave at you and say, hey, thanks for being here today and things like that. ⁓ Most golf courses have marshals. We don't have a marshal, we have ambassadors. And those ambassadors, sure, part of their role is to help keep the place of play moving and things like that. But they also have candy with them.

they'll give you candy and ⁓ different things like that. Because a marshal's ⁓ a word that is authoritative, not welcoming. An ambassador is welcoming. And so they're gonna welcome you and be friendly and give you some candy and make you feel special, right? ⁓ So that's the type of things that we, a couple examples of what we do on the service side. And then the third pillar, and it's a big key, is unmatched value.

value comes from a lot of things. Part of it is the service, part of it is the course conditions, but a lot of golf courses, a lot of businesses say they offer the best value or whatever, but it's not just us saying that. Recently, ScoreGolf magazine ranked golf courses across the country, ⁓ public golf courses across the country by value. We were number one in the Edmonton area, number two in Alberta, number 30 in Canada. So it's not just us telling you we offer great value. ScoreGolf magazine is saying,

Yeah, the ranch is one of the best values out there. And our golf course used to be ranked in the top 100 in the country, so it's a great product. And we price the ranch very fairly. There's a lot of golf courses around that are not nearly as good as ours that charge way more money than we do. We charge a very fair and reasonable price, and then we don't discount it. We're never gonna be at a two-for-one book or, I mean, we're never...

doing any discounting, our prices are reasonable and fair, and so when you walk away from here, you're like, my gosh, I had a fabulous experience, I didn't feel like I got robbed by how much I had to pay, or anything like that, but what we do have is I believe in value add, I don't believe in discounting. So, years ago, seven years ago now, through this whiteboard meeting, we kinda came up with this, I was trying to look for an idea to reward our...

loyal customers that came here a lot and played. And so I was looking for a loyalty app, ⁓ which is fairly common now. Boosier Juice has one, Starbucks has one, McDonald's has one. I did this before all that, and so seven years ago, and I searched the world, literally searched the world looking for a company that had a loyalty app at a golf course, and I couldn't find one, so I started my own company.

partnered with one of the best app developers in the country and I built the perfect app. We've had it for around seven years and we have around 12,500 users of the app and those 12,500 people have spent around $16 million here. if, I'm really darn good at running a golf course and really darn good at running a business and making a business very profitable.

Clay (29:59)

Wow.

Murray McCourt (30:11)

don't have expertise in is selling an app. And if I was, I would have been filthy rich by now selling this app because we had it set up so perfectly that could have been all these businesses that have it could have done it through ours. There would have been one app and you could just click on restaurants. There's your restaurants, golf courses. Here's the restaurants that golf courses that you went to that you were collecting points at. And I mean, we had it set up so perfectly.

I just didn't know how to sell it. And the gentleman that I was partners with, he was the app developer. So he wasn't into sales of it either. And I'm a busy man. So I didn't have time to really do it and whatnot. But I missed the boat on that one. But that's how we offer value. You get points ⁓ for money that you spend here at the ranch and then you turn those points into getting some free golf or some free equipment or free food and beverages, that type of thing.

and so that's additional value that you get when you're already paying a very reasonable price to play golf here.

Clay (31:15)

sure and that's so cool that you made that app and I'll ask a question to you know kindly push back a little bit but do all public all public courses all semi-private and public courses in Canada and America do they already have their own loyalty apps that they're using?

Murray McCourt (31:35)

Nobody does.

Clay (31:36)

So

you did not miss the boat on that one yet.

Murray McCourt (31:39)

No, and like a lot of big companies do it and like we were ahead of the curve on that and yeah I don't know of another golf course anywhere that has what we have and it's a key part of our business. know, people come here I could tell dozens of stories of people that choose to play here, book tournaments here, book business meetings here, whatever because they're going to get points.

And so if you're sitting around with some buddies ⁓ trying to decide where you're gonna play your next round of golf and one guy says well, geez if I play the ranch like two more times I'm gonna get a tailor-made wedge that I don't have to pay for because I have enough points So let's go there so I can get some more points. Well, that's it. This that's ways that people decide where you go play

Clay (32:28)

100%. 100%. I think it's great. I'm not going to ⁓ get off track here and turn the rest of this episode into digging into your app, but I would love to talk with you more about that in the future. I think it's a very valuable thing. And like you said, the proof's in the pudding. It's 12,500 users spending $16 million and growing as a result of their engagement with your app. that's proof. ⁓

Murray McCourt (32:56)

The numbers don't lie.

I have it up. Yeah, I have the back end up on my screen. I look at it almost every day because tournaments that get here, they get some points and things like that. once I get the information back from our events team and they pay, then I reach out to them and thank them for their business and make sure they know about our loyalty program. And if they don't, tell them about it and get the points to whoever they want to get the points for hosting their tournament with us.

Clay (32:58)

No, yeah, no, that's it.

Murray McCourt (33:26)

You know, I am on the back end of that. So I see the numbers, I see it every day, really. It doesn't necessarily grow every day, but I mean, over seven years, 12,500 is a pretty good number.

Clay (33:41)

Yeah, for sure.

Brad (33:43)

That's excellent. love that ambassadors idea, Marie, because I know as well as you do, you go play golf course and there's a marshal. It is really like there's a police officer out there and you're looking over your shoulder all the time. Are we keeping up? And you see that cart rolling by with the flag and you're like, here he comes. Is he coming to talk to us? And it's this ⁓ this like feeling of impending doom when you're out there. If you feel like you're behind somebody's hit a couple of balls into the trees and somebody's up there.

Murray McCourt (33:53)

Yeah.

Brad (34:11)

Maybe it's somebody you actually, who's joined your group, who's a bit slow and you're trying to speed them up. It's this terrible feeling in your gut where you're like, ⁓ if I see that Marshall, you my day's over. So I love that idea.

Murray McCourt (34:23)

Yeah, and it even goes deeper than that. They have golf balls with them. So if you're looking for balls in a tree, they'll toss you a couple of golf balls so you don't need to worry about looking for your ball for too long. ⁓ If you have a group that potentially was behind and you work with them and get them to catch up.

They have other bags of tricks with them besides the candy. They could offer them, you know, thank you so much for catching back up to the group in front of you. Here's a jug of beer, coupon for a jug of beer or half plate of nachos in a restaurant after, which also gets them into the restaurant after and they'll spend more money. They're not just gonna have to jug a beer, they're probably gonna get four steak sandwiches with it. And so they have all these tools at their disposal that they can

Clay (35:09)

Yeah.

Murray McCourt (35:15)

use as they see fit to help in the process of making the experience more enjoyable for everybody. And yes, you know what? We all know in the golf business, you can have one group can destroy the whole day. yeah, if we have that group, we'll have them skip holes and whatnot. if they just don't wanna do that, mean, yeah, sometimes you have to tick off one group to make 200 golfers behind them the rest of the day.

enjoy their day. So if you tick off four people, it's better than having 200 people upset with a poor experience at the golf course. yeah, they do have to, you know, be that at times, but you know, we give them tools that can help make it easier.

Clay (36:05)

sure and on that point the the good cop bad cop right if the marshal is typically archetypically stereotypically ⁓ that authority figure people are like impending doom you see them come around like we're going to get barked at we're going to get told let's what's up we're definitely not getting some beer coupons from them you know it's a totally different vibe but if that guy comes around the ambassador he's an ambassador and he has these gifts he has these treats he has these

⁓ rewards slash bribes, right? It works. It's a double whammy because for that one group that could mess it up for everyone, that's going to be trouble. That's going to push back that maybe we'll never come back to your course ever again. And there's going to be, maybe they've been drinking a little too much and whatever, right? Those people, you have to have tools in your tool belt to diffuse situations, to really take control of it without being controlling, without being dominating, without being authoritarian, without.

wielding your marshal stick and whacking everybody with it, right? Because they're not going to respond to it because the marshal isn't a police officer. He's not going to be able to arrest you. The thing is he'll kick you off the course, but he can still mess up the day for everyone. This one group and the interactions with the marshal, if it doesn't go smoothly and isn't diffused properly, I imagine can really put a damper for a number of people behind them and even back at the clubhouse later on and all these things. But if you can diffuse that one group and bring them just to a point of

⁓ agreeableness. They're just, you know, they're looking for a bit of a, I used to bounce at nightclubs when I was, you know, late teenager in early twenties. And I learned very quickly, like, we don't want to fight. We don't want to get altercations. I never want to put my hands on anybody. So I'd always talk to people and I'd always diffuse it with, words and people would guys would come to the bar looking for a fight. And I talked to them and I'd shake their hand. I'm like, Hey, look, here's a bottle of water. You had too much. Let's go outside and have a cigarette. And I didn't smoke, but I have a of smokes and it always off of these guys cigarettes.

And they'd love it. They're like, oh, they're looking for a fight. They're looking for me to grab them and like take them out. Cause that's what happens at every bar they go to when they get in trouble. And I'm like, Hey man, here's a bottle of water. Let's go up a smoke. And he's like, you're not going to grab me. You're not going to try. I'm like, no, I'm like, let's go. And then I give him a smoke and give him a bottle of water. And then at the night he walked up and shake my hand. goes, thank you. I'm like, you're welcome. You're welcome back here anytime. And he goes, no, thank you. He goes, I've never been treated like that in my life at a club. And I said, well, you're welcome. You and your friends are welcome back here again.

And so, but if you don't treat them like that, they're fighting, they're throwing a mess, and then they're never welcome back at the club. And if they come back again, they come back and start trouble. an ambassador has that neutralizing effect, but that's the one difficult group that could be there for the day for everybody else who is not looking to cause the problem, who is not looking to be the disturbance for everyone's day.

It's like a pleasant surprise. The ambassador is like a buddy. He's like someone they want to bump into. They want to interact with because every interaction is pleasant. Every interaction is a pleasant surprise. They get a beer coupon or some ball talk, whatever it may be. They know they're going to encouraged to continue at the pace of play, to not hold up for everyone else. That's the ambassador's primary job is to keep the flow going for the day. But

There's all these positives that come out of the interactions that lead people just feeling that good, that good taste in them, that good kind of feeling that, and that builds their brand. builds your team. builds everything to the experience where they, when they come, there's a reason, like I said, there's a reason you guys are so full. It's not new golfers filling your guys ⁓ show like that. It's a lot. imagine if you take a guess, how many of these people coming back, keeping you so full are repeat regulars? How many would you say?

80 %?

Murray McCourt (39:55)

Well, yeah, it's hard to say because it is so difficult to get a tee time here that, you know, it's a little bit of everything. But sure, people want to get back here, but it's whether or not they can get a tee time all the time. But yeah, it's one of those things where because it's so hard to get on here, it's like, I got a tee time at the ranch, yay! You know, it's exciting that way. But I'll give you guys another one. When COVID happened, it was the...

once in a lifetime opportunity that golf courses had to flip things on the booking public to get it back in favor of the golfers. And almost nobody except for us took that advantage of it. And what I'm referring to is people that no show for tee times, people that cancel for tee times, people that book as four and show up as three and two, that cost golf courses, if you do the math on it, ⁓

two, three, $400,000 a year in revenue. So when COVID happened, we were told we have to do prepayment. We were told we have to. Almost nobody did, some did, and some that did have now gone away from it. We haven't. When you book a tee time here at the ranch, you pay for it at the time of booking. sure, there's some cancellation stuff in there if you give us proper notice, but...

If you, you can't book for, like, our no shows are almost, pretty much zero now. And nobody's booking for four and showing up as three. No one's booking for four, showing up is two, because you've already paid for it. So if you do show up as three, you've already paid for it. So it doesn't, we've got a revenue. But I didn't just take that revenue and put it in, you know, our pockets here at the ranch. What I did was before COVID, we had eight minute, nine minute tea time intervals.

and you know the pace of play could you know was probably four and a half was a pretty normal round out here but what we also learned in covid is when we're forced to have the tee times further apart oh the pace of play was all of way faster so we have our tee time intervals now at 10 minutes and the pace of play here it is really rare if it's over 415 like most of the time it's right around 4355 to 405 is

what I would say were 90-ish percent of our rounds fall. And so that experience that you get, you've already paid, so when you come, you kind of feel like you're not digging your wallet to throw money out. mean, it's more of a private club feel, if you will, when you're not having to, you just show up, ⁓ yeah, go ahead and here's some range balls for you to go warm up, here's your cards over there, just go ahead and grab it, and all's good. So that experience when you're actually here is, is,

very much more positive. And then because we've done that and not losing all that money anymore, and that T-time we have less players on the golf course, the golf course moves faster and that makes the round again more enjoyable. you know, man, golf courses miss the boat. Everyone should be doing that. And we did have some pushback from some people.

But you wonder what the ones that didn't want to pay it's so easy for a guy to book a tee time and then hey guys he transfer me 100 bucks for the green fee and I mean that's so easy So people that complained about that were probably the people that are gonna no-show They're probably the people that are wanting to book us for and show up as to because they didn't want to play with anybody else and costing the golf course money I mean, that's that's disrespectful and and we've we've we fixed that problem here

⁓ with prepay and again the demand is through the roof to be here and so people are fine to do it because we're the only one in the Edmonton area that does it and but they're fine to do it because they know when they come here they're going to play a fabulous golf course they're going to get treated incredibly well and they're going to get great value so it's a win-win for everybody.

Clay (44:05)

Sorry, no one else in the Edmonton area pre-charges that you pay up when you show up. You reserve your spots and you pay when you show up.

Murray McCourt (44:09)

No. There's a lot that...

So a lot of courses are now taking credit card numbers, but it's just to hold the tee time or whatever. you know, it's, it's, you know, in most cases, it's probably just a threat. You're not really probably going to charge your card with anything because all you'd have to do is call up your credit card company and say, I didn't play golf at that golf course this day. And they, they reversed the charges back. So it's, you know, it's a...

It's not a matter, like if you buy tickets, you guys are in Toronto, if you're buying tickets to an Argos game and the weather's a little off, are the Argos gonna give you your money back for your ticket because you don't wanna go and you're gonna stay home and watch it on TV? No. So if it's a little windy at the golf course or it's a little too hot or it might rain a little bit, I think you can top it out and go play. So a lot of those days where we do have bad weather days, we're still pretty busy because...

If it's really raining, would, it's not like we're gonna say, oh, we're not gonna give you your money back or whatever, but more people, because they already paid, they just, ah, let's just go play. We already paid, and so we're still pretty busy on rain days, if we don't have tournaments, which a lot of days, it's pouring rain in the city, and every other golf course in the city is not very busy, and we have 144 shotgun going off at eight in the morning, 144 at 2.15 in the afternoon, and they're going rain or shine.

We're good.

Brad (45:38)

Yeah, it says so much about the product. If you can get people to prepay. Because I know when I went and played Cabot Lynx there, they don't really have a cancellation policy at all. You've paid, you're going to play. The day that I played there, it was raining torrentially and blowing the opposite direction that it normally blows. was like blowing towards the ocean, which made no sense.

It made the golf course impossible to play. Like everybody that I played with that day was just picking up on every hole. was insane. ⁓ which, which is like a bit much when I look back, but it's like, that's kind of what I went there for, right? I like, I went to play the day before it was like beautiful. Like, and I missed that day because of a different arrangement. So I got there that other day and it was blowing sideways and your ball was literally like, you know, it got to the point where it was almost unplayable, but we were having such a good time out there because it's such a beautiful property.

And we're like, well, everybody's having to deal with this. This is the way it is this day. And, ⁓ and I just remember like walking off that golf course, like beaten down being like, that was the most insane round of golf I've ever played. But I was like, I would do it again tomorrow. So it's, it's all about what product you have. ⁓ if it is that high value, yeah. Pre pre pre charge for it. Right. Like I can't just cancel on my dentist the day of I can't just call my dentist up and be like, Hey, I'm not really feeling it today. I can't get my teeth cleaned.

Murray McCourt (47:04)

You

Brad (47:04)

You know, like,

can I come another day? It's like, no, they have cancellation policies. they're, they're going to charge you, you're going to get charged for it. And that's just the way that it is. So, and that does, that does help to keep people playing when it's a bit of an iffy day. And it is disrespectful when, ⁓ you know, cause I've worked at private clubs and. You know, you'd have, you'd have a foursomes booked all day. looks like you're going to be so jam that day. And then there's the little, little hint of rain and you have people just pulling themselves off the tee sheet, leaving gaps.

It's a little bit of a different beast, obviously, with a private club, but it's still, you know, you'd have no shows, you'd have a full group not show up. And then you're like, well, okay, now we'll slot this group in. And it is such a wear on your staff. just exhausts your starters ⁓ and your golf pros and everybody who's around the operation. Your bag drop is looking for people. They're not arriving. Your back shop is putting bags away. It's like that level of respect. I think with what you're doing there, it can be reestablished.

and put it back on the golfer, like you said.

Murray McCourt (48:05)

Yeah, well and the other piece too, not it's a public course setting it's costing the golf course money But it's also like as busy as we are somebody else would have loved to have that tee time that you know showed on or whatever, right? So You know, it's costing somebody else the opportunity to get on the course and play So it's just not not fair that people do that. But like I said, we solved it We don't have that problems. It's all so it's all good in our world when it comes to that But but again, we didn't just take that extra

money and put it in our pockets. gave it back to our customers and a better experience by 10 minutes, 10 minutes.

Brad (48:41)

Yeah, I love that. Love that idea. ⁓ Let's kind of shift here. I mentioned in the intro your book, Outside the T-Box, which offers a deep dive into your personal journey and your secrets of success in the golf business. What inspired you to write it and what do you hope readers take away from it?

Murray McCourt (48:53)

Thank

Well, I don't know if you ever heard the name Craig Can. ⁓ Craig Can used to work ⁓ on the Golf Channel as a host on the Golf Channel and then ⁓ he worked for the LPGA Tour for five years and I saw him at a conference one time and he just blew my mind and reached out to him after the conference and you know, he became a mentor of mine and we did some work together on some things and whatnot and he

Edward has a book out as well and he encouraged me to write a book. He said, people need to hear what you do and what your story is and things like that. And I'm like, do you think anyone would want to hear anything about what I have to say? And he's like, absolutely. And so I started writing a book. wrote the business part of the book like a few years before or whatever and it actually got released.

But he was telling me, you're at the point now where you gotta start working with editors and publishers and stuff. And so I was trying to find that up here in Canada and I was really struggling. And everyone saying, well, you gotta self-publish. You gotta self-publish. And I'm like, I don't really feel comfortable that my writing skills are so good that I would self-publish a book. And so I just put it on the back burner and one day he was back at his alumni ⁓ university in the States in a suite and ⁓ he phones me from the suite and says, hey, I'm in.

had a suite in this football game, college football game, and two guys that are in with me own a company called Streamline Books. I told them about you and your book. They want to publish your book. I'm like, what? So I set up a Zoom meeting ⁓ with them two days later. Three months later, my book was published. And so I wrote the rest of it in that time period, and they walked me through it and became a best seller on Amazon right after it was released, which... ⁓

It was pretty special. And what I would want people to take away from it is, and this is what I really love, when people read the book and then they're not in the golf business. Ultimately it's a business book, but sure it gets painted as a golf book because of who I am. But when people that are outside the golf business read it and reach out to me and say, thank you so much for your book. I took so much away from your book and I'm gonna implement this and this and this this into my business.

That makes me proud that I was able to help somebody out and their businesses by sharing some of my ideas.

Clay (51:29)

That's cool. And it's absolutely correct. Businesses transferable business experience in golf is is definitely applicable to golf and different golf courses. But a lot of the principles, practices, the maxims, the they're universal. They apply to any service based business and the hospitality business, any team business. There's definitely ⁓ analogs that can benefit from reading a book.

that are completely outside of golf. makes total sense. And that's cool that that's happening. Because again, just the title alone, you think people reading it would only be in golf and people who aren't in golf probably wouldn't be as drawn to it, right? But the fact people are reading outside of golf and reaching out to you to give you that ⁓ acknowledgement and thanks, that's super cool. That's really cool.

Murray McCourt (52:21)

Yeah,

and so I'm extremely well known for thinking outside the box and that's where the name came from was outside the box but then T box because it just kind of a play on the golf a little bit and whatnot but yeah I was I'm happy I did I'd probably never do it again because it's all a lot of work and you know it's it's a little daunting putting yourself out there in that way ⁓ as well but you know I kind of got past that a little bit and people say like

I've had my own radio show, as you mentioned too, for seven years and so I am out there, but that's not necessarily really my personality. I'm not a guy that likes to be front and center. I'm a little bit shy actually in ways and people, when I say that, people are like, are you kidding me? You have your own radio show, you're really, but how are you shy? But meh, I am.

Clay (53:13)

Cool. the introverts are the ones who only like to be introverts, away from people. Extroverts are always outside. Ambiverts, they can kind of skate between the two worlds. And I'm more of an ambivert myself. I can put myself out here on a podcast, but I like to be behind the scenes too and work on tech stuff and just work on websites, marketing and sales stuff. And I'll get out here, I'll do it because it's valuable to other people. And it's a good exercise for me to get out there and express.

Murray McCourt (53:25)

Yeah.

Clay (53:43)

and share my thoughts and my words. But, you know, it's not something I want to do eight hours a day all day every day for my entire career. But it's valuable and you want to add value. So you kind of step outside our comfort zones to, you know, ensure that what we have to share that is valuable is shared and is a value to others. You don't share it, no one's going to get anything from it. So good on you for doing it. And that's cool because it is it's I started writing a book a long time ago and I never got it finished. But

It's once you have a team and you have people willing to publish it and help you out with it, you're like, oh, I have some accountability and I have some support. So it's no longer, you know, a one man band trying to do something that I've never done before because who likes doing all that? You know, learning the whole ropes by yourself.

Murray McCourt (54:28)

I can connect you to Streamline Books if you want because you're getting it done. If you're working with them. You have things, got timelines and you got to keep up. It ⁓ was fun. It was a really fun process. I appreciated working with them. They're great guys and gals too. I had a team, I what you said. I had a team that I worked closely with for like I said three months that pushed it over the finish line.

Clay (54:34)

Okay.

Murray McCourt (54:57)

and got it done, so yeah. It was a very rewarding experience, and if you got it started, I encourage you to finish it for sure, because, I mean, it's just something you can tick that box off that you've accomplished in your career and in your life that most people don't, right? So, it's pretty special.

Clay (55:17)

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, right on. I want to shift into talking a little bit about the role of AI in golf. You you mentioned you're not an AI expert, but you know, you're bullish on its potential. How do you envision AI transforming golf club operations and then your future kind of across the industry to start?

Murray McCourt (55:38)

That's a great question and I guess the answer is it's evolving so quickly that I don't know that anyone knows the answer to that yet. But I mean what you guys are doing, you guys phoned me up and told me what you're doing. I'm like, well, yeah, I'm interested for sure. If it's gonna do work the way I need it to work, I would highly be interested in that. But ultimately for me, it's a big time saver. I ⁓ was speaking at a...

an event and I needed to put together a presentation which normally I would have said would have taken me three hours of my time to put it all together and whatnot and took me 15 minutes using AI to do it and it was probably better than it would have done if I would have done it ⁓ old school way on my own and it was the information that I wanted and needed to give out so helpful in that way and you know same thing like with my radio show and

I use AI to help me get some of the questions that I want to be asking to our guests and things like that that would help the engagement of the listeners and things like that. yeah, like it can be so helpful, but what and where it's gonna go, I think it's too early to tell, but it's gonna be incredible what it does do.

Clay (56:59)

Yeah, I always like to start at the pain points because

But to say necessity is the mother of innovation, right? It's like wherever the pain is, wherever the challenge is, the recurring persistent bottlenecks and pains, that's usually operational or communications or administration or something like that that just takes manpower. takes, you know, every click of your mouse or click of your keyboard, keystrokes, clicks, right? It's seconds, but they compound and they compound into hours and hours on computers.

I always like to say like, one of the best advice I got from someone who's very, very successful and mentor of mine, he said, you know, I got to a point in my business as fast as I could where I do the first 10 % of every major project, which is generally an outline instructions, what, what the objective is, what the final outcome should look like. It's, it's an overview. He goes, I do that. So the 10 % that I delegate the other 80 % to my staff and they do it.

And then they give it back to me and I review it the last 10%. There's no difference between with AI. Now people, you know, if, and I always encourage people that, you know, speaking with who aren't in a, it's easier for those in a managerial position, cause they're already in a position of delegation. So they don't do all the work themselves. They have staff and they delegate to the staff, but if they don't delegate, then the staff doesn't know. And if they can't explain to the staff what they need to do, then the staff is making it up as they go. So there's always that like,

Here's what need to do. Here's what the final outcome should approximately look like. Go get at it. And then the final review of things is just checking it off, making sure it's all good. It's the same thing we do with AI, but a lot of people, because they don't delegate in their role, they're the ones being delegated to, and they don't delegate to anyone else. Some of those people have more, I guess, resistance or they don't kind of hit the ground running as easily.

because now they're delegating to a machine, but they've never delegated to anyone, they've been delegated to. And so it's a good exercise in management to say, here's the outcome I need, here's the resources I have, here's the tasks, here's the instructions. And so people can become their own kind of mini managers, I guess, and they have their AI staff, AI assistants that are doing the body of work for them. And then they're going through and.

Murray McCourt (59:08)

Yeah.

Clay (59:31)

checking it, double checking it, making sure it is the output that you want. And so it can't do all the work for you. But like you said, it would take you three hours to write that. It did it in 15 minutes. It probably had less spelling errors, grammatical errors, all these things. And then you went through and read it you're like, that's the best I could have written it, right? But it needed your prompt. It needed your instructions. It needed your guidance. It couldn't have done it on its own.

Murray McCourt (59:55)

Sure, it's

not like it's not your work, because you're guiding it and giving it, but the other piece I do is can give you so much advice on things, if you're having, whatever it is at work, you're having a problem with an employee doing something, or you want to promote this event in a different way or whatever, just ask AI. I mean, you can brainstorm ideas with you and your team or whatever.

which you can still do, but you can also ask AI and it's gonna bring up a whole bunch of ideas and you say, I never thought of that, I'm gonna do that one and that one that one. It's crazy not to use it. Another quick story I'll tell you too is this year, ⁓ Adam Wiser, our events manager and Clibos manager, he's getting resumes from servers and when he pairs it down, he sends a preliminary email out to them with some questions that he wants answered to see if he would wanna bring them in for an interview.

He gets one back from a girl that was, he said it was like so perfect and then he put it into the AI machine and said, this was 98 % or 99 % that it was done with AI and he's like, yeah, so like that's not good, don't, I'm like, That girl is innovative and she's on top of things. That is gonna become more and more the norm. Because she did that, absolutely you need to bring her in for her.

interview and talk to her and face to face now you can see if she's really gonna answer the questions in the way you want the day I did but just because she answered those questions using AI doesn't is enough reason to eliminate her because that means that she's using what's out there in today's space to help you.

Clay (1:01:34)

Yeah, it's called AI literacy and AI fluency. It's like word processing fluency or literacy or competency or Excel competency. It's a software tool. And if someone wants a job and you can't use the dominant software tools that get the job done, you're not going to get hired for the job. And it's something that it's kind of ⁓ a phrase getting tossed around in the AI world, which is AI won't replace you, but someone who knows AI will. And it's almost like that for almost every industry. It's like,

Murray McCourt (1:01:45)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Clay (1:02:03)

In the golf the golf pro there's not going to be a robotic Literally like a Tesla robot standing there like working with people anytime soon in any golf club anywhere And I don't think anybody's gonna want that to be honest ⁓ But if someone can do the job of ten people in half the time That person's gonna have a serious competitive advantage in every industry doesn't matter what industry they are and the people that are like nah I don't want to learn it. It's like someone being like I don't want to learn the internet and computers and

I like my pen and paper. They're going to get at work at some point in the near future once everyone is on the tools.

Murray McCourt (1:02:40)

Here's another example. I have a meeting this afternoon with a company that is working with me. There's government grants for certain things, and they have an AI-driven software that they plug your information in, and they have a 99.6 % success rate of you get the information, you plug your information in, and they worry that AI words it out, words it and does the application for you. They have a 99.6 %

success rate of these grants and it's significant money. So I have a meeting with other stuff. If I can get free grant money because of things that we do here in our operation and that I never would have known anything about if it wasn't for this and AI, I mean, it's a no-brainer. So answer your question, AI is gonna be huge in the golf world, in my space, as it is in every business, and if you don't...

get on board with it, then world of business is going to pass you by.

Clay (1:03:42)

Yeah, and then so before we move in the next and last question, like is there any. Recurring persistent pain or challenge specific you know at the ranch where you see that AI can make a significant impact either in time savings cost savings revenue generation or just employee support staff support.

Murray McCourt (1:04:03)

Man, that's another great question. And I probably don't really know the answer, because we're really dialed in. Everything's pretty efficient in so many ways. If AI could make my parking lot bigger, that would help me. ⁓ But yeah, I can't necessarily pinpoint one thing off the top of my head that I think AI is going to make a significant, I might just say what you guys call me about.

we could take away a lot of phone calls. Like so many bookings are down online now, but so many phone calls come in and again, we're so busy, probably at least 100, 200 phone calls a day are coming in, oh, sorry we're full, sorry we're full, sorry we're full. But if your AI technology that you guys are working on can make it so our staff doesn't happen to spend all that time saying sorry we're full and could be selling merchandise in the pro shop or.

or something else, then that would be highly beneficial for sure.

Clay (1:05:06)

Cool. Yeah, I can do that. You can definitely do that. Cool.

Murray McCourt (1:05:10)

Sounds like a plan.

Brad (1:05:14)

Yeah, well, we're in the homestretch here, Murray. So just a couple more questions ⁓ before we get going. I really appreciate your time. ⁓ So your journey offers valuable lessons in leadership, differentiation, and embracing innovation. What advice would you give to other golf club managers aiming for sustained success?

Murray McCourt (1:05:34)

Well, it really comes back to knowing who you are as a business. You need to define that and then really excel at it. And there's every business, golf courses can all fit different niches. There's McDonald's and there's Ruth Chris Steakhouse. There's different levels of food, just like there's different levels of golf course. So you need to really know who you are and then be in that space. As a golf course, if

You ⁓ know, if you're a low end golf course and you're the say a McDonald's of golf courses and then your menu has steak and lobster on it, that's not who your customer is. you just, and that's not knowing your business and having the proper menu for who your customers are. And so the same thing, the opposite. If you are a fabulous golf course and you're serving McDonald's

quality food, like the lower end of the food, that's not who your customer is. So you just need to know who your business, know what your business is and then just dial that in and then once you have that dialed in, just knock it out of the park in who you are and don't try to be something that you're not.

Clay (1:06:52)

Know your niche, know your niche, know your customers and know your niche.

Murray McCourt (1:06:54)

Yeah,

exactly.

Brad (1:06:58)

Yeah, that's great advice. That's what we're hearing from tons of general managers when we speak to them is you really have to know who you are. It's a very common theme in these discussions ⁓ is culture, golfer culture, staff culture, and then knowing who you are and being honest with yourself about what club you are and not trying to be something that you aren't. So I think ⁓ that's a very valuable takeaway from this.

So we like to close out these podcasts with some rapid fires here, Maurice. So say whatever comes to mind and we won't reply or get too deep into things. number one here, favourite golf course you've ever played, obviously besides the ranch.

Murray McCourt (1:07:41)

⁓ phew. Torrey Pines and, ⁓ no, not Torrey Pines. Victoria Golf Club, right on the ocean. That was a big one that comes to mind right away.

Brad (1:07:50)

Nice.

Awesome. Yeah, beautiful spot. one thing almost every public golf course should stop doing that they likely are doing right now.

Murray McCourt (1:08:04)

Stop charging for range balls to people that are paying a green fee. That's nickel and diming your customer sets your green fee where range balls are included.

Brad (1:08:17)

Yeah, couldn't agree more. There's nothing worse than going into a shop and being like, can I get a small bucket to warm up? And they're like, yeah, it's 12 bucks or whatever. It's like, come on, come on.

Murray McCourt (1:08:25)

Yeah,

don't like that one.

Brad (1:08:30)

⁓ The best pearl of wisdom or advice that you ever got in your career.

Murray McCourt (1:08:37)

⁓

Well, I would come back to, ⁓ differentiating yourself from, from others. And this is something like Craig Cannon and I talked a lot about together and advice that he's, he's given me is it comes back to if you do what everyone else does, why is someone going to choose to come and play the wrench over going play course X, Y, Y or Z and just do things in the, do things that set yourself apart.

and people will want to be part of that and enjoy your facility more because they're looking for that experience that's just a little more unique and makes it more special.

Brad (1:09:21)

Awesome. Yep.

Murray McCourt (1:09:21)

Another piece too is a lot of golf

courses are great at welcoming the guests, but they're not good at thanking the guests. So something on the way out ⁓ as a parting gift, we took it off for now, but we have a video on the 18th green on our GPS, which is me thanking the customer for being there today. We appreciate their support and hope they had a great day type of thing. So thanking the customer and showing your appreciation for them after the round. ⁓

is important as well as it is welcoming them in the beginning.

Brad (1:09:57)

100 % can agree more. Who would you love to have as a guest on your radio show that you haven't had on yet?

Murray McCourt (1:10:03)

⁓ I'm a tiger guy. I'd to have Tiger Woods on my show for sure.

Brad (1:10:11)

Yeah, amazing. I guess this can tie into your final question here. Your dream foursome, dead or alive?

Murray McCourt (1:10:19)

Well, it's, it's Tiger for sure. You know, and I ask that, I have a question of the week on my show and I often have that and a lot of people are saying like they're their father and things like that and my parents don't golf and things like that so I struggle with this a little bit. I'm gonna say Tiger Woods, my son, I have a seven year old son and as he gets older and plays golf I would love to be able to share in special.

Brad (1:10:22)

Yeah.

Murray McCourt (1:10:49)

moments with him on the golf course as well. And I'm a ridiculously diehard Chicago Blackhawks fan, and so we'll go Jonathan Taves.

Brad (1:11:00)

Nice, nice. Good answer. yeah. ⁓ Having a son and playing golf ⁓ with him is pretty epic. You know how it is, right? A round of golf, there's a reason why men do business on golf courses, right? It's a microcosm of life. You learn if somebody's a cheater, right? You learn if they tell the truth. You learn how they handle success. You learn how they handle failure. It's really an amazing place to spend four hours with somebody.

Murray McCourt (1:11:16)

you

Brad (1:11:26)

⁓ you know, whether, whether old or young and then see their character, really brings it out in, in, in an individual. And I find it's a, just a fascinating thing when you spend that time with somebody out in the middle of a park, hitting a ball around how much you learn about them.

Murray McCourt (1:11:40)

Yeah, absolutely. And the nature, I mean, just being out in nature, getting some exercise and hanging out with your friends or family, heart to beat.

Brad (1:11:48)

Yeah, it's the best place. ⁓ Awesome. was.

Clay (1:11:51)

A giant, garden that you can play in as an adult and not get covered in mud and mess, you know?

Murray McCourt (1:11:53)

See you

Brad (1:11:53)

Yeah, yeah.

Murray McCourt (1:11:57)

Yeah, exactly. I don't drink on a golf course, but I mean the beer cart keeps coming around and around offering you drinks I mean That's pretty cool

Brad (1:12:07)

It is a wonderful place. Murray, that was wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us on the Ace Call AI podcast.

Murray McCourt (1:12:13)

No problem at all. Happy to join you and ⁓ hope it was helpful to some people to listen to what I had to say.

Brad (1:12:21)

think so. Your passion, clarity and leadership in this business are very obvious and it's easy to see why the ranch is thriving under your watch. There's a lot here for other golf course operators to learn from and we're grateful you shared it with us today.

Murray McCourt (1:12:34)

Yeah, appreciate it guys.

Clay (1:12:36)

Thank you. I really appreciate it was it really awesome. I really I love how you built something You know so uniquely you and I didn't know that you have ownership. This is this is your partner in this business and you put more of you into it I Guess by virtue of having skin in the game having steak in the game And so it is it's it's uniquely you and so it's it's really cool and you know, it's clear You're not just running a busy course. It's you know, you're leading a

legendary operation with heart and the purpose and you know, we just really appreciate your time coming up here and sharing this with us and with our audience. And I know for a fact, our audience is going to love this one. We're really trying to focus on moving forward a lot more public and semi private courses, just because there's more of them. And they can kind of just move a lot faster than the fully private models that have

board of directors and it's just when they want to do more stuff, it can't happen as quickly. And so we're going to keep interviewing, you know, private course GMs and private club GMs, because it would immense value that can be transferable to public courses as well. you and we did a podcast earlier this week with another public course GM. I personally like to speak to business owners and

people that have marketing and operations as part of their mindset because they interact with the public versus a private membership where they don't interact with the public and they, ⁓ it's different. They're not into marketing, they're not into sales, they're not into continuous ⁓ improvement because their bottom line is almost kind I wanna say fixed. It's not fixed because they can lose members, members don't spend as much and whatever. So there is a,

revenue component, but I'm finding it's I'm more excited when I talk with with public course GMs because my business background I just find I don't have a golf background but I can relate more to the public courses and just they how they operate and just how their whole kind of structure from the ground up is and so yeah it's really cool I think this is gonna be a very great episode for our audience so thank you again.

Murray McCourt (1:14:52)

Yeah, no problem at all. Great to meet you guys.

Clay (1:14:55)

you as well. And be sure for those listening, follow the ranch, golf and country club on social media and stay updated on what they got going on there. And if you're living in or visiting the Edmonton area, you might, and I stress might be lucky enough to get out there and play around.

Brad (1:15:12)

Yes.

Murray McCourt (1:15:12)

Well, absolutely.

We want the phone to keep ringing.

Brad (1:15:17)

Yes, yes, definitely. That's a good problem to have. And don't forget to check out Murray's book, Outside the T-Box, available on Amazon. It's a must read for anyone in the golf industry. We'll put a link in the show notes as well.

Clay (1:15:31)

Yeah. And last but not least, if you're curious how AI and voice AI can help your club get ahead, call our Ace Call AI receptionist at 1-866-838-8581 and ask for a free copy of our golf club AI amplifier. It's a free tool and resource that we built to help golf club owners and managers and staff win with chat GPT and other generative LLMs, large language models specifically. ⁓

just after reception is for it and we'll send it right over right away. And that's it. Thanks for tuning in to the Ace Call AI podcast where we help the golf clubs win with AI. I'm Clayton Elliott.

Brad (1:16:11)

and I'm Brad Milligan.

Clay (1:16:13)

And we'll see you next time.