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How Joseph Murphy Runs One of Canada’s Top Private Golf Clubs: Culture, Governance, and AI Insights

In this episode of The AceCall.ai Podcast, we sat down with Joseph Murphy, the longtime General Manager of The National Golf Club of Canada.

With more than four decades of experience in private club management and a track record that includes leadership roles at St. George's, Scarboro, Islington, and Thornhill, Joe brings a level of perspective, wisdom, and clarity that every golf club GM, owner, and department head should hear.

What made this episode especially powerful was how grounded Joe remains, even while leading one of the most prestigious private clubs in the country.

From practical leadership advice to timeless culture-building principles and real-world reflections on AI in clubs, here are the most valuable takeaways from our conversation with Joe Murphy.

1. Culture Isn’t a Vibe—It’s a System

One of Joe's biggest themes was the intentional creation of culture.

Too many clubs treat culture as a vibe that simply "emerges."

Joe is crystal clear: culture must be designed, protected, and reinforced consistently.

"If you’re not intentionally shaping it, it’s shaping itself—and maybe not in the way you want," Joe said.

At The National, culture is reflected in the people they hire, how they onboard, how they are recognized, and how they're supported.

Joe even created a small but powerful recognition system: the "Leaf of Excellence" pin, handed out in front of peers to reward standout performance.

Key takeaway: Culture is not an accident. It's a management function.

2. Private Club Governance: Lead From Behind, Not Below

Joe's reflections on governance were some of the most insightful we've ever heard.

He described the delicate art of educating a volunteer board, helping them feel empowered while also ensuring alignment with the management team's long-term vision.

"The board is made up of successful people—but not club managers," he said. "They need your expertise. But they also need to feel like you're in it together."

Joe views his role as a "managing director" rather than just a GM.

He cultivates individual relationships with each board member so he can shape discussions before they hit the boardroom.

That way, he’s never blindsided—and neither are they.

Key takeaway: Great GMs don’t just report to the board. They lead the board.

3. Adapt to the Club’s Culture—Then Elevate It

Rather than forcing his own playbook onto every club he’s managed, Joe emphasized the importance of adapting to a club’s existing DNA before trying to improve it.

"You have to adapt to their culture first. Not the other way around," Joe said.

But once you're aligned, your job is to gradually raise the standard.

That might mean improving food and beverage service.

It might mean refining the onboarding process for new members or staff.

But it always starts with understanding what makes that particular club tick.

Key takeaway: Elevate the standard after you embrace the culture.

4. Staff Buy-In Is Harder Than Ever—Especially with Seasonal Teams

Staff turnover is a reality of seasonal clubs.

Joe doesn’t pretend otherwise.

But what impressed us was how seriously he takes the challenge of getting seasonal employees to buy into the club’s long-term vision.

"Most of them won’t be here next year, and they know it. But I still invest in them like they will be," he said.

By showing respect, investing in training, and recognizing their contributions publicly, Joe increases the chances that seasonal team members return the following season.

That consistency pays dividends.

Key takeaway: Even short-term staff deserve long-term investment.

5. Avoid the "Membership Panic" That Breaks Clubs

Joe warned of a dangerous trap he’s seen clubs fall into during tough economic times: sacrificing long-term culture for short-term cash.

"Some clubs opened the floodgates to anyone with a checkbook, and they paid for it for years," he said.

The result?

Division within the membership, diluted culture, and lost identity.

Joe's advice: don’t panic. Know who you are. Stick to your standards.

Key takeaway: Never let short-term fear destroy long-term brand.

6. Net Promoter Score Is Gold

When asked what metric he tracks most closely, Joe didn’t hesitate: Net Promoter Score (NPS).

"If your members wouldn’t recommend the club to their friends, everything else is secondary," he said.

NPS is the ultimate trust indicator.

Joe uses it as both a health check and a management guide.

If it dips, something's off.

If it climbs, they’re doing something right.

Key takeaway: If your NPS is weak, no amount of marketing will save you.

7. Where AI Fits in Private Clubs

Joe admits he’s no AI expert—but he sees its potential.

He’s already using ChatGPT for writing and communication, and he’s curious about where Voice AI and automation can help.

One example? The front desk.

"We don’t need a full-time receptionist, but we need someone to answer the phone consistently. That’s where AI could really help," he said.

Joe understands AI isn't about replacement—it's about freeing up time to do more meaningful, member-facing work.

Key takeaway: AI should support hospitality, not replace it.

8. Autonomy + Accountability = Excellence

Joe gives his department heads real autonomy—but with clear standards.

"They know more about their department than I do. My job is to support, guide, and remove barriers," he said.

This trust-based model means Joe doesn’t have to micromanage.

And his people step up because they feel ownership.

When it doesn’t work, it’s usually because someone isn’t aligned with the club’s culture—and Joe acts fast when that becomes clear.

Key takeaway: Autonomy works best when your culture is strong.

Final Thoughts: Legacy Through Leadership

What stood out most about Joe wasn’t his title or track record. It was his humility, consistency, and clarity.

He doesn’t just manage a club.

He builds systems.

He mentors staff.

He shapes boards.

He protects culture.

And above all, he understands that great clubs are built by great people doing ordinary things extraordinarily well—every day.

If you’re a golf club leader looking to elevate your operations, engage your board, inspire your team, and explore how AI can support it all—this episode is required listening.

🎧 Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

📞 And don’t forget to call +1 (866) 838-8581 to claim your free Golf Club A.I. Amplifier™ and start exploring what AI can do for your club.

#GolfClubLeadership #PrivateClubManagement #JosephMurphy #TheNationalGolfClub #GolfOperations #AIinGolf #VoiceAI #GolfClubCulture #ClubGovernance #MemberExperience #AceCallAI

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Clay (00:03)

Welcome to the Ace Call AI podcast where we help golf clubs win with AI. Owning and operating a club today is harder than ever. So we created simple AI solutions and a podcast to make it easier for you. I'm Clayton Elliott.

Brad (00:18)

And I'm Brad Milligan. Together, we bring a mix of entrepreneurial innovation and decades of golf club management experience to help you optimize your club, increase profitability and elevate the golfer experience. So let's dive in.

Clay (00:31)

Yes, but before we get into it, if you want to massively improve your chat GPT game starting today, so you can stop stumbling and fumbling around with it. If that's your experience with it, even if it's not your experience with it, if you think you're already doing pretty well with it, this can help you do even better. Call our AI receptionist right now at 1-866-838-8581 and just ask for our free golf club AI amplifier.

It's a short PDF resource that can help you and your whole team cut down your workload by 10 plus hours a week with a handful of cut and paste prompts. Take it away, Brad.

Brad (01:09)

Yes, sir. So Joseph Murphy is one of the most respected leaders in Canadian private club management and currently serves as the general manager of the national golf club of Canada, widely considered one of the top private golf clubs in the country. He's had a long and successful career running some of Canada's most well known clubs, including St. George's, Scarborough, Islington, and Thornhill. At every stop, Joe has built a strong reputation for leading with integrity, building great teams, and delivering exceptional experiences for members.

At St. George's, he spent over seven years as general manager and chief executive officer, helping guide the club through major projects, all while keeping the club's traditions at the forefront. Later, he joined Thornhill Golf and Country Club as general manager and chief operating officer, where he was brought in to help take the club to the next level. Everywhere he's gone, Joe has focused on raising standards, building positive culture and helping clubs evolve while still staying true to their roots.

His deep experience and steady, steady leadership have made him a go-to name in the Canadian golf industry. Thanks for being here, Joe.

Joe Murphy (02:17)

My pleasure, Brad. And Clayton.

Brad (02:21)

Yes, Okay, Joe, ⁓ let's kick things off by rewinding the clock a little bit. Everyone sees where you are now, but let's go back to the start. What originally brought you into the golf industry? Was there a specific moment or experience or person that inspired this career path?

Clay (02:22)

Thank you.

Joe Murphy (02:37)

I started as a young boy.

Caddying at the Hamilton Golf and Country Club is really where I got my start, Brad. it was, you know, back in those days, we know how great of a golf course it is and always has been. You know, we didn't have the rankings back then and it was really like I grew up in Ancaster, which is where the club is located. And it was like a mile from my home and you're 10 years old, you're lugging a bag around and, you know, the members were great mentors back then. Especially when you were caddying, they really took an interest in

developing you as a caddy. you know that the succeeding summers I would spend caddying and very much look forward to it and then you grew and appreciated the game and loved the game and ⁓ you know when you get in through high school and you're contemplating in university where you know what are some of the things that you want to do ⁓ golf was a passion.

Now, there was a day I could play a little bit better than I can now, so I actually flirted with the idea of, I even consider going down the of the golf professional route? And of course, that didn't come to fruition because of my abilities, but I morphed into golf management and I had to sort of understand what's the path, if you will, to get to be like a general manager or certainly a top manager in the industry.

or in a club rather, and ⁓ that's where I I went into the food and beverage side and worked at various clubs and then worked my way back to golf because when you're gaining your spurs, if you will, you don't always have the luxury of picking the position you want. You have to go to perhaps non-golf clubs to pick up the skill, the management skills to get back to golf. But golf was really my mainstay. really, especially in my general management career, I always had to be in a club that.

head golf is its main sport.

Brad (04:45)

Yeah, that's awesome. That's, uh, yeah, it just kind of reminds me of my path, right? I started, uh, working in the back shop and caddying and that kind of thing. And, uh, I don't know if you feel the same way, but probably do, but the, it's, so enjoyable when you're, you know, a kid and you're at the golf course, it's such a fun place to be. And you, you actually grow so much because you're myself, I literally couldn't speak to people. was so shy and reserved, but you have to, once you get into those positions, you have to start interacting with people. Uh, or else you kind of, you know, they're like, okay, thanks.

back this summer so tell me a little bit about that.

Joe Murphy (05:19)

It's a good point. I I attribute a lot of my success today from the years of my caddying. I mean, I really do. I had members, I think, figured out by the time I was 12 years old where to stand, what to say, what not to say. You all the disciplines and the culture around the whole private golf mentality. And it was a discipline that I fell in love with and I really appreciated it. And I became a student of the game. I'm not a great player of the game, but I love...

great golf courses and great design golf courses and I obviously love the environment around that whole private membership club and it's been very enjoyable and I've done it for close to 40 years.

Brad (06:01)

Yeah, it's awesome. So thinking back about those early chapters, when you look back at your time ⁓ leading places like ⁓ Thornhill or Scarborough, or even from Islington and St. George's in the 90s, what were some of the pivotal lessons you picked up that still guide your management style today?

Joe Murphy (06:14)

Thank you.

You know, my style, and every manager has a different style and that's what makes them successful. One of the ones that I always felt strongly about was memory engagement. sure, you come in as a food and beverage manager through the, I guess through the 80s, again, you're trying to climb the ladder. mean, again, it was all about memory engagement. It was always about how you...

connected, it was really adapt and connect if you will. was, you know, my style, it's, you you're coming to a club, most clubs have their own culture. And if you can't adapt to their culture, it's short lived in your career. I mean, you might have all the greatest ideas and, you know, and the things you want to put forward, but at the end of the day, if you don't really fit into their culture or understand their culture,

You're not going to be successful. So I think that's the key thing as I, as I moved through my career, when I was at Islington in my younger, that was really my first GM job was, was Islington Golf Club. And I remember it fondly. And I, again, you know, I was young and probably 31, 32 years old. And I, you know, they, I was hanging off some coat tails. Let's be honest. You didn't really know a lot about general management and some of the mentors along the way really, really helped you. And they helped you because they saw.

an opportunity for you to grow and they saw an interest and a desire and again it all goes back to that engagement. Now those are the, you you report to a board but you answer to a membership and I think that's the key. If somebody of my, over the years you see people that didn't quite make it ⁓ or weren't successful in their particular career, I would say the number one reason is they couldn't really engage with their membership. Remember the members will trump the board at every step of the way.

Brad (08:11)

Yeah.

Joe Murphy (08:11)

Again,

I work with the boards of private clubs. And again, I should qualify. I've always been in private golf clubs. I haven't been in for-profit golf clubs. So it's important you understand what they're looking for because once you connect the dots there, and then you can liaise with the board and that's how everything stays aligned and you move forward. So that would be one of the key things I really did from club to club, is I'm the one that had to adapt.

And not them. It's important you adapt. And if you don't understand that, then good luck.

Brad (08:41)

Yeah, yeah. And it's

noticing, you know, the club culture that you're stepping into if it is a new role. And, you know, maybe a club has gone through something, you know, we've spoken with other golf clubs, ⁓ they've gone through something where they've had to sort of change up their club culture. So it's figuring out where the club is headed as well, right? It's not just, you know, obviously you're stepping in a place like St. George's, the National, it's very established already. This is what we want to do here.

This is the golf course. Like St. George's is super golf focused. They have this amazing golf course. Same with the national, right? It's very, we have a golfer membership here. ⁓ you know, but, but, when you step into a role, you couldn't hit it on the head anymore. Cause we talk about that so much as club culture and building and maintaining club culture. And if you're not adapting to that, yeah, they'll, they'll replace you, right? The, the membership will just say, Hey, that, that, that's enough. You're not getting it, right? You're not getting what we're putting down here. So, ⁓

Joe Murphy (09:38)

Exactly.

Brad (09:39)

Yeah, those are great points here.

Joe Murphy (09:40)

Yeah, and you have to respect that culture. mean, you don't always agree with it, but you respect it. then when you're there and you understand the culture, and then you start introducing ⁓ some innovative ideas that might be on the food and beverage front, again, you want to understand what it is that really makes them tick. Like it could be, I mean...

as simple as you're having a family event. I think there's been some clubs that hadn't even really had Christmas events or Easter events. So you introduce those and you get the kids involved. I mean, even though they have a that has a framework, but there's always things that they appreciate.

includes their families or includes their friends and and members I mean what really makes members tick is They want to join a club of like mind like interest people feel they've been successful I want a bit more of an elevated experience than the public clubs that I can yeah we can always join the XYZ club and but it's again it loses a bit of its culture if it isn't of like mind like interest like of a club that people really want to be part of

That's why in things like membership committees at clubs that that really take take a lot of pride in interviewing their prospective members interviewing Who's coming into the club because they really want to make sure that you that the individual rather is aligned? With their values and their culture because if they're not then that starts to divide the membership and I got to tell you the last Really and I might be jumping ahead here Brad but the you know from about wait when the crash happened and through to about

to COVID. Those are pretty lean years in our industry. There were no wait lists. We had to open up a lot.

to bring members in. So I'm not saying you had to forego culture, but you had to forego some of the parameters necessary to make sure you got the right individuals that are coming to your club because you really needed members. And when you need members, I mean, you have to relax a little bit on some of those things. when you go forward though, and you look back and you say, I'm not sure that was always the right move. And I'm not going to name any club that went through that, some more than others.

experienced it and that was say 10 or 12 years that the industry was very lean and I know you know what I'm talking about it was it was rare they even saw a list and then maybe a couple of clubs it was it was a real challenge in our industry to maintain that level of members and make sure that you know the bills get paid

Brad (12:21)

Yeah, yeah, was definitely a, I saw that that clubs, you know, they were going through that, economic turmoil. And like you said, it's, it's almost like the filter, you know, the interview process for the members was like, okay, do you have the money? Like, let's just make sure you have the money, right? It didn't, it didn't matter about their, you know, have you ever played at a private club? It was sort of like, okay, we'll teach you that later. Whereas, you know, ideally your, your members showed up, they're already refined. They understand the private club.

Joe Murphy (12:29)

Mm-hmm.

Yes!

Yeah.

Brad (12:50)

experience, we had a lot of members, you know, coming in and they weren't fixing divots. They weren't fixing ball marks, like very basic things, right? So they had to be retrained. So we had to create, you know, a full retraining program of, here's how you do this. Here's how you do that. Here's like proper etiquette, which you wouldn't see now because you know, there's, ⁓ places have crazy wait lists now. So yeah, totally different, totally different, ⁓ dynamic right now.

Joe Murphy (13:11)

Yeah, but...

Well, COVID did that, as you know, and I've been asked over the last year or so, it sustainable? Well, I think it is because I love, again, being a student of the game, I love what golf is. It's a cradle to grace sport. It doesn't matter what your ability is. You're a scratch golfer, Brad, I'm a mid cap, or we can play together. You just got to give me a bunch of strokes, more than you think you have to give me, by the way. ⁓

Brad (13:36)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll see, we'll

Joe Murphy (13:38)

But you know what

Brad (13:38)

see.

Joe Murphy (13:40)

mean? So that levels the playing field. But it's a very, very good point. I think it's important that the club itself understands what its culture is. And I've been through a few clubs where they've suffered an identity crisis. And as I grew into my career, it's interesting, I started to specialize in those areas. I mean, it started off at Islington. I was fortunate to get the job of my first gig at St. George's in the 90s. And again, you know,

as prestigious as that club was, they had some challenges. Again, back again, I'm gonna take you back to the early mid-90s before there was a bit of a boom that we developed waitlists, but they didn't have a waitlist. We're short 30 members. We were gluing carpets to the floor because you didn't have the money for the capital investments.

You know, but it's important they maintain. One of the things I always said about some of the clubs I worked at, they maintained, they never deviated from who they were and what they were. And the clubs that did are the ones that continued to suffer. And I'm not even saying the ones that I've been at, just some of the clubs, and you can see it develop, is that they've gotten away from it. They've become a divided membership. Some can afford it, some can't afford it.

It's like the old hat is when you start giving things away, you might fill your roster, but good luck with sustaining that level of contribution that you so need from your members. It's a members environment. They're the ones that have to pay for it. And if you don't have the like mind, like interest, they don't understand the culture that they're in, then it becomes problematic. And I've seen it in some of the clubs I've managed, but I've also seen it in some of the clubs I haven't managed. And it's sad really, but it

it's hard to get that back. Once you've lost that and ⁓ I keep wanting to name a couple of cops but I won't is that you it's just hard to get it back and then they suffer from that because they're always chasing that sort of bottom line or that member waving a check rather than understanding what their commitment is for the long term.

And that's critically important as I've gone into clubs over the years and I've tried to specialize in trying to help clubs, not redefine, but sort of understand what they're doing, try to build around that, try to build a culture that people will respect and want to be a part of. But lowering the prices, and we saw a lot of that in the last, say, decade or 15 years ago, just slashing prices and...

The ones that went too far have continued to suffer from that. might have, you know, they might have opened the gates and got a lot of people in, but culturally they're suffering.

Clay (16:31)

Yeah, I can see it's a, do they call that? Selling out. It's like, we need to make the money. Well, bring in that sponsor or do that new thing or do this little dance, whatever it brings the money in. And then people watch it. They're like, this is not, it's not becoming of you, man. Like pick it, you know, like hold, hold out a little bit. Have patience. Don't panic. Don't freak out. And if someone starts freaking out, you're like, ah, this is, uh, maybe this place will be here in five years. I liked it. I liked it while I was here. Sorry. Go ahead.

Joe Murphy (16:50)

you

Well, that's a good point.

Well, you know, it's interesting. I'm going to go way back to my early years. was, it was a city club. was in Hamilton and where I grew in the city, I grew up and I saw this, this well-established ⁓ prestigious city club that, you know, was going through some pain had been around, you know, well over a hundred years. And because

They got caught, you guys, I don't know you remember back in the early 80s, the interest rates skyrocketed. They were all 16 to 20%. They got caught in that. They were trying to renovate and they opened the floodgates. let everybody in who weighs a check. Well, you know what started to happen? And this is where I learned this in my early in my career is the older members, the more established and the ones that had some wealth started to leave the club one by one, one by one. And the next thing you you turn around all the wealth.

of the club was gone and he's now left with the people and they're transient members. It leads me into the whole trial membership program. I'm sure you guys are familiar with that. Look, it's a great program. I'm not saying it isn't. It's a good way for people to test drive your product. But when you have to do that...

And you have to, if you have to, have to. I'm not suggesting it's a bad program, but if you can get past that, just, as you said earlier, Clayton, don't panic. know, we'll get through this. mean, the property values, most of these clubs are phenomenal. mean, banks will help you financially. I mean, if you need to get through that period, but the ones that panic, the ones that opened up their membership, the ones that took their dentures down to almost nothing.

are ones that are going to continue to suffer and you still see it today, even in this market. You'll see clubs that just, it's hard to get that back. And that's what I tried to do over the years, not only operationally, try to develop the staff and the team, but really just understand where these clubs want to go and then help to elevate those, you know, that whole standard of their clubs.

Clay (19:09)

Yeah, it's a very good point. it's, yeah, I want to shift gears and get into another topic, but I'm very interested in this because I used to work in, high-end, ⁓ supper clubs in Toronto.

Joe Murphy (19:25)

Yeah, but it's an interesting point because it's the silent majority that don't say anything and they leave. They just leave. They don't want to complain. You're just not meeting their expectations or the club's not meeting their expectations anymore and they leave. I mean, that's happened at every club I've in. It's happened at the national when I first came here. I got to tell you, were even I've been here just about almost three years and the first year I know the club struggled operationally.

you know, a few years before I got here. And a lot of people were leaving and I would ask them, I do an exit interview and they just, well, it's not meeting my expectations. I said, well, why? Well, service, you know, the culture, or there's a few things that are just not within, you know, the things that they're interested in. But as time comes back, because we didn't really lose culture, but there were services and there were, you know, there a lot of little things happening that we weren't meeting their expectations. So a lot of the members.

But now that we've refined that, we've got it back, we've hit our standards of excellence and we can stay engaged with our members. It's interesting what's starting to happen. You're starting to see more more interest of people wanting to join the club because you guys have heard a lot about the most important ⁓ grade, if you will, in a survey is your net promoter score. How many people would recommend their club?

And that's number one. That's the number one thing on any satisfaction survey you want to see is how many members or what percentage of your member would recommend a club to their family or friends. And if you've got a high percentage of their bingo, you're successful. Because a lot of people, know, if you've in clubs, they'll come in and have a bad night in the restaurant or something. They'll go, thank God I wasn't with guests. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I can handle it because I'm a member, but if I was with guests, I'd be really ticked off. Well, let's...

It's because it's their pride, their home, and they want to show it off. And I'm not saying we'll ever be without mistakes, but it's often how you respond to those mistakes. And it has to become more, it has to be an exception, not the rule. And once your members understand that, they're fine with it. when they, like I said, go back to your Net Promoter Score, when you see that high, that's the one I always monitor very carefully in our satisfaction surveys. How many of your members will... ⁓

or recommend their clubs to family or friends because that's your continued growth. Without that, without your recommendations, advertising, I won't go down as a whole, that reared its head back in the, well over the several decades, invariably you would have to have, certain clubs would have to advertise. But sticking an advertisement in the Globe and Mail to join a private golf club, it's counterintuitive. mean, people would...

you know, okay, so I walk in here, they don't know anybody, they come in and it takes them a while to kind of get it going and you might get the wrong person. it's a lot of money for very little return. Now, having said that, back in the 2010, 2012, even St. George's we had to, we were running out of members, we had no wait lists, so we had to carefully get the, you know, get the message out to people that we're gonna need a member.

As much as you worked through your membership, did a very, I remember this, we did a very high end ⁓ mail drop, like a very classy one. Interesting, so Brad, if I live near you and I got this brochure, which I go to you and you'd say, yeah, I didn't know you wanted to become a member of this club. So what it did, it created awareness. And it was very well done. We worked through a marketing company at a very high end, so we protected the brand, but we had to get the message out that we needed members.

And that's critical when you do that is how you, as I said, George, one thing I always was very impressed with them and they never deviated from the brand. And when they had to do things that weren't typically part of the norm, they would do it in a very tasteful way. So you just, again, get the message out. And that's really to sum up what we've been talking about here about culture. Don't deviate from that. In other words, drop your pants and just go out there and start, you know.

putting pennies on the dollar to get in. It doesn't work.

Clay (25:20)

Exactly. Exactly. It's like you said earlier, it's identity, not having an identity crisis and knowing who you are and who you want to continue to be into the future. So, yeah. So let's, let's shift gears now because I want to speak just a little more about, you know, where you're leading today because what I've, from what I've researched and what I've heard from Brad and

Joe Murphy (25:27)

Exactly.

Clay (25:41)

The national it's a very special place in Canadian golf and it's well known across the country and even worldwide for its exceptional, you know, playing. I thought it was very cool that George and Tom Fazio were, they were able to design a course that simultaneously one of the most challenging to play even for world-class pros, but it's still playable by everyone, which, know, it really does sound like a masterwork of design as it has been referred to. So, and I imagine like there's a certain standard

that comes with that name, as we just been discussing and you've already kind of, you know, broached on a bit, but I'm curious, how do you keep that standard, that high standard while still striving to build on it and exceed it when the expectations are already, you know, kind of high, you had a striving for inches, you know, at that point, but I'm just curious what the approach is there.

Joe Murphy (26:31)

Yeah.

Well, it's a very good question, Clayton. It really starts with the people. ⁓ I've been fortunate to come to the National. There's a lot of good people, good staff that they bleed green. know, car, we're the Masters green or the clubs of Masters. I mean, they just bleed green. But it comes down to, you know, it comes to the leadership too. you know, everybody needs to be led and, ⁓ you know,

When I stepped into the arena here, it was great to have a lot ⁓ of enthusiasm and passion. So I was fortunate to get that. again, that comes from what we talked about in culture. And it really bleeds into the staff, for sure. And they feel proud of where they work, and they feel proud of their achievements. But having to find that, to your point, about how do you maintain, so it was lost for a bit. It's the whole food and beverage side.

golf side was spotty, but the food and beverage that we started with, it was just, there was a lot of turnover and there was a lot of challenges there. So it's really having to, we had to make a few changes and by doing so we just, we were fortunate to really get a top chef, for example, from the restaurant side of it. And again, it had to be a chef that's particularly skilled to this clientele where the majority of our members are Italian and

It's an Italian restaurant per se, but there's more than that. It had to be somebody that consistency and that quality and that this fellable demand. So we were really fortunate to get that executive chef and he's just got this place is light years and where it was even two years ago. And then by developing that team and he develops his staff and all the staff there is new. And then the front of the house staff, which is your waiters and some of them.

A lot of them are new and not all of them and they really appreciate the leadership that they see and they see that I care, that there's an investment being not only made in the club but in them and their education and their training and the seminars and they see that we're taking it seriously, right? If you don't take yourself seriously, who else is gonna take you seriously? we have to really, ⁓ that comes from the leadership.

We have to walk the talk if you will and and that goes I'm speaking of food and beverage because that was really the first And it always is by the way guys. It's it's just every club I've been at food and beverage Food and beverage is just always the one not that's the heart every interview I've taken well, what would you do about food? Because it's such a personal thing But this is I got to tell you, you know st. George's we had a very good chef went through a very similar exercise back in

Clay (29:07)

That's what we're hearing too. I'm finding that more and more when we talk to guys.

Joe Murphy (29:25)

My second round there in 2008, we had a really good chef. He was still there today and they love him. Same kind of a thing. We got it here. was again, hardly any complaints on food and service. On the golf side, we had to make another change. We looked for promoting from within, it just, mean, the skill level talent wasn't there. So we had to go out and we found the right...

director of golf and he's done a great job. He's only been here little over a year and he's really again, is aligned with the club's values, aligned with my values. And this gets back to what we said at the outset, adapting and connecting, making sure that my values are these values. I mean, let's be honest, the National is a male only club and some people that isn't necessarily aligned with their values. It's not.

because they don't allow women as it's, we allow women as guests and family members. It's just, it's kind of a culture. It's the male members that want to do their thing. They want to sit around and have cigars and drink brandy and whatever they do after the round. But that's just, it's its own sort of separate culture and that's fine. I mean, it's, there's no, we're not being unlawful. I know some people would prefer that we take ⁓ both Janet and who knows, maybe one day that'll happen. But right now this is what the club is.

And, you know, going back to the head pro, was fine, and director of golf rather, and he was able to rally some of his, most of his, he kept most of the staff. So he was able to elevate their performance because he cares and because he, because they see it in him, again, walking the talk. And so as you see those develop, and both of those, those are two key positions that were remarkable. These guys have done a great job. Now on the flip side, the golf ⁓ superintendent's position.

Chris Dew, long time, probably one of the best golf superintendents in the country is here. He's now our superintendent emeritus, ⁓ but it's a very part-time role. We promoted from within. He did a remarkable job in succession planning. He was able to groom, there was actually two of them, but one of them was chosen for the role and ⁓ he's his first year here and he is outstanding in terms of his care and enthusiasm. And again, it's the people. you don't see...

I can't work with somebody that it doesn't share the same kind of passion and enthusiasm. And if they don't, they're not going to make it. I mean, I have, and unfortunately I have several examples of that over my career where you think you hired the right guy and the right woman and it just doesn't quite turn out because they're not aligned with the, again, your values or the club's values. And if you don't have those all going in succession, it's very difficult to be successful. So again, I'm only as good as, my leadership style is more of a supportive role.

I like to build the team, I like to bring the team together. like highly skilled and highly passionate people and I let them do it. I've told them all, I'm a supporter. You know more about what you're doing than I know than your job. Like, take a chef. He obviously knows a lot more about cooking than I do. Director of golf knows a lot more about running a pro shop and an operation than I do. Golf course superintendent knows a lot more about agronomy than I But it's about bringing those people together.

on, again, the same, aligned the same way to achieve the one common goal is how to continue to elevate your standards. And that's within the culture that we, you know.

And that's what we've been successful so far in doing that and we'll continue.

Brad (33:00)

Yeah.

Yeah, very good points there, Joe. The, the, cause you have your, you have your club culture, obviously, but you have your staff culture too. And those really have to align, right? If they don't, if they don't match up, if you're, if your staff is not getting the club culture and what they, the, the, you know, what they need to be.

kind of promoting and putting out there to the staff membership. if, if your membership wants the staff really interacting with them, playing a bunch of golf with them, ⁓ want them really involved, you have to note that and then make your staff available to, be able to fulfill that. Right. So, you know, you'll find that at clubs where you will, you'll, you'll go play. You and I've both played so many golf clubs. You'll feel like there's a little something off at certain clubs, but then you'll go to other clubs and they're nailing it. Like the staff is, is very excited. They're happy to be there. They're, they're.

super friendly, outgoing, but then other places you'll go play and you're like, there's a disconnect here. This isn't working. Right. So, so you're right. It's, have to hire the correct person. You have to hire somebody who's going to do their job so that you don't have to then be micromanaging. Nobody wants to micromanage. Nobody wants to be micromanaged. It's just the worst thing when you have an operation where people are being micromanaged from the top, it's just, it's never going to work. Right. So those are, those are massively important things to touch on. I think is, is your staff culture.

⁓ in relation to your membership culture.

Joe Murphy (34:24)

Yeah, and it's a very good point, It starts at the top. It always starts at the top. If I didn't care, and I said, oh, just go do your job, it'll trickle down. And then the senior manager says, well, he doesn't care. And some will try. Some will.

will not go that way. But you know what mean? It just starts to become disconnected as you said. And then it reflects on the staff. They don't care. But a little discipline, a focus, and support. I think it's critical that my role is, I mean you call it what you want. mean there are all sorts of management models out there. The inverted triangle and so on. I don't want to get into that. It's just, I like to look at it. I'm in a supportive role.

I mean, I have a job to do ⁓ with the board, the membership, and bringing the club, making sure that it's functioning well operationally and then looking strategically and working with the board of directors as well. And how do we maintain that? How do you make sure your capital investments are constantly in view and making sure that it aligns with all the things that keep this place what it is? And those are challenging and I don't want to have to go and...

and see somebody working in our back shop. mean, hopefully our director of golf sees that. Now, I'm not saying I'm immune to that. I mean, I see things and I'll ⁓ bring it up and we'll meet with our management team regularly and we'll talk about some of the challenges that we have. But it really, it comes down to investing in your staff. I mean, let's be honest. I mean, we're a seasonal operation. The challenge, think, if somebody said to me, what's your biggest challenge has been in your career? It's probably having to get...

seasonal staff bought into your vision. And you know, I'm the guy that has to, it's not, it's not like I came into the club, it's my, it's the culture here, I've adapted, understand, and I have to create the vision for the staff, and how do they buy into that vision? I mean, that's always been the number one challenge in leadership, right? You you look at some of the great leaders of our times, some of the great presidents, how do you get them?

The key for them is how do get people to buy into your vision? And the challenge for us in this environment is the seasonal staff. I this isn't their career. isn't, let's be, I would say 90 % of the people or 80 % of the people that you hire are never gonna have a career in this field. It's simply gonna be, it's like a sojourn for them. It's, they're just coming along for a few years and...

and then they're out. But one of the things that I found interesting, was, it was my food and beverage years, I was at Hamilton Golf, I was the food and beverage manager there for a number years. And I ran into ⁓ a couple of female staff years later, and one was a doctor and one was a lawyer, believe it or not. And they came to see me, they were friends, and I was just happy to run into each other, it was at some event, and they came over to me and they said, Mr. Murphy, and I went, okay.

I don't really remember them because they had grown, but I always remember the story. They said, you know, we've gone on and I'm a doctor, I'm a lawyer, but I always remembered about the food and the wine and all those things that you taught us about the little nuances of the wine and the food and it expanded our knowledge. And they said, they never forgot that. So there you go. So there's part of buying into the vision is, is if you can get them just to believe in theirself that they make the difference.

You know, it's easy for us to sit as general managers and pat ourselves on the back, but I'm nobody and our senior staff is nobody. If the frontline staff aren't performing, we're just useless. So it's important you invest in them. It's important you support them. And it's important that you listen to them and get their inputs because that's what gives you the buy-in and the engagement, not just with the members, but also with the staff.

Brad (38:25)

Yeah, great, great points there, Joe, about your seasonal staff, because that is the struggle. And I always would tell them when I'd be hiring staff or interacting with staff, I'm like, you don't know who you're going to run into in the future. This place could be a jumping point for you, even if you're 15, 16 years old and you could caddy for the CEO of a bank, not even really know it. And then later on he's interviewing you or somebody his subordinate, your name comes across their desk.

Right? It's such a small web there that ⁓ these relationships that you build when you're working at golf clubs, ⁓ I noticed that I still speak with people, know, members from Rosedale from when I was, you know, 17 years old and I started working there. Right? It's like, I still have these relationships. They still, they're ongoing. If I needed something, I could probably reach out to them and say, Hey, do you mind giving me a hand with this? Right? There's relationships they carry on forever. If you rub people the right way, if you rub them the wrong way, they're going to forget you tomorrow.

Joe Murphy (38:57)

Very good one.

Brad (39:21)

But ⁓ yeah, that's a massive, massive point. Let's.

Joe Murphy (39:22)

It's a very good point,

Brad (39:27)

Yeah, you mind? We'll just take a ⁓ quick little shift here. ⁓ We'd to...

Clay (39:32)

Well, I just want

Joe Murphy (39:32)

Yup.

Clay (39:33)

to add, I just want to add one more thing to that is no, I do that. think it's a great point because it's about selling. Like you said, Joe, for us in here in Canada, you got like four or five months of a season, six, if you get perfect fall conditions and perfect spring conditions, but it's a short season. And to get that buy-in every year from people who might just be passing through, they know it, you know it. How do you get them to perform at the same level as your

career golf professionals as your career managers who aren't just coming and going. They're not just going to disappear. And one of the things you could mention to some of these younger people is whether you're caddying, whether you're wherever you are in this club, you could, this can be on your resume. And when you're handing your resume out in the future and someone's like, ⁓ you worked at that club that I go to, or that my colleague go to, or that someone I know goes to let's

Joe Murphy (40:30)

Yep.

Clay (40:31)

Let's

ask a couple of questions about, about who you were back then. Right. And if your name precedes you or someone can call up and say, remember that guy five years ago, that young guy working the back shop, they'd like, yeah, great attitude. Good guy. You know, he, just showed up and he, he went through some hard days with us. It was only a four month stint he did with us, but no, he showed up. He showed up and he put his shoulder under the canoe and he lifted with all of us. And, I only have good things to say about him that that could be a career changing, ⁓ vouching.

Joe Murphy (40:50)

Yeah.

Clay (41:01)

or reference, you know, that can come years down the road and because someone knows your golf club. If you work at a McDonald's or something else, no one's going to know that you worked, you know, I'm saying no one's like, okay, you work there, but I don't know anybody who worked there. But if you're working in some of these private clubs, like you said, Brad, you have no idea who you are connected with one or even two degrees of separation away from. And it can open doors for the rest of your life.

Joe Murphy (41:12)

Yeah.

No, it's excellent point.

And many the many staff, but certainly a number of staff over the years have been hired by ⁓ members or certainly referred as a reference. those are all valid points. Those are sort of the outcomes of investing in your staff and believing that. But again, you've got to share that. They got to see your passion. They got to see your vision.

in order for them to buy into it. And once we're together, makes it just easier to, when they know they're being supported and when they know, they just give you that extra effort. We have a little thing here, know if, it's called a, it's a pin, it's called a leaf of excellence here. And it's a little pin that I hand out. And we don't give them to everybody.

But if they performed well or been promoted or whatever, and I do this publicly in front of 120 of them at our annual staff spring meeting. And I called up about seven of them this year and they're proud as punch. So we all heard about that. The money isn't necessarily the motivator, although it's important you pay people what they deserve. it's those who want to do a good job will do a good job, right? Those who don't want to do a good job, they just fall away.

But when you can recognize their performance and sincerely give them something, boy, they just beam. And you don't think that helps you to, they'll do anything after that. They're just gung-ho. And that you can't manage, right? That you gotta, you don't have that in you. I'm sorry, and then you're not gonna last long here. Look, we've all experienced that. We've all had dead weight. The guy you think they're gonna make it, they didn't. They didn't make it because they lost their passion or they just lost their interest.

Clay (43:03)

For sure. And you can't, yeah.

Joe Murphy (43:19)

whatever, it's just, same with me, if I lose my interest or I lose my path, I just move on. You don't have to fire me because I'm just gonna move on. And I think that trickles down to a lot of people and just trying to get by and especially at this kind of a club, trying to get by is, ⁓ you're not gonna last. But all very good points that we've made here in terms of investing in our staff and the networking that's involved beyond their club summers and what they can get in there.

Clay (43:49)

Yep.

And praise and recognition, it's free. It doesn't cost the club anything. And like you said, you give a seasonal guy passing through the right praise and recognition. Well, guess what? Next season, when he's looking for a part-time job between school and he's assessing all of his different seasonal opportunities. Well, now he knows this place will get paid well, treated well. He'll get the right respect and praise and recognition. And it's a no brainer for him. He's, he's, lining up to reapply for the next season's round. And he knows what he's signing up for. He knows who he's going to get and the train, you don't got to train him.

So it's like, like you said, it's one of the biggest challenges is hiring every year for seasonal, but there's lots that GMs can do to ensure they have a 60, 70, 80 % return rate of the same seasonal staff who came the year before, right? Because where else they're to get that kind of treatment, that kind of pay and that kind of environment and that kind of opportunity to open doors for their future. No other seasonal jobs will open up doors for young people's future as a, you know, working in some private golf clubs and given their best.

Joe Murphy (44:21)

Right.

Right. Right.

No, it's very rewarding for those who really work at it for sure.

Brad (44:55)

Awesome. Yeah, let's take a little shift here. So, so Joe, when you, when you look ahead to the next five to 10 years, what do you see as the biggest challenges or opportunities for private golf clubs specifically?

Joe Murphy (45:09)

⁓ You know, it's interesting looking back a few years what COVID did and really took this took our industry to a different level, which is it's really nice to see and I'm glad to see it's not short lived that, you know, but there will be over time. Let's be honest. I mean, there'll be other things competing for your entertainment dollar. ⁓ But it's the youth. It's the

You know, let's be like, would say probably ⁓ what typically I think the age is roughly 40-ish before you can really afford a membership. A lot of people say your juniors are your next member, potentially, but not necessarily right away. They have to go out, know, build a family, you know, they have a homes and you know, when they get some money and they're successful, they'll come back and join private clubs, but they will remember your club.

or their family or wherever club they're at. And likely that'll be their first choice. But in terms of where it's going, it's interesting we talk about AI. I'm actually quite fascinated. my probably windows. I'm at the more the end of my career, but I'm not done yet. And I'd love to see what AI...

and some of the, and how that can assist managers. And I don't mean replace people, because I don't really see that happening, at least not yet. But I think some of the offerings, and again, we're scratching the surface on what they can offer in clubs will be fascinating. So I think that's gonna be a sea change in terms of what's available to clubs and how they're managed.

even from the agronomy to the pro shop, all the data that's available and all of the intelligence that comes with AI that's at your fingertips. mean, it's remarkable. It really is. It's how we use it that's going to be the trick, right? I mean, we're all fairly new to it. I mean, think it's great. can zap something to AI. wow, this is great information. But what do you do with that information? So that's one key thing in terms of

management of clubs. The development of people is still very, very strong. think it's hard in this world. It's so diverse that to try to get to get, and I don't mean seasonal now, I'm talking people that take this as a career. As you know, Brad, your profession, the whole golf, the PGA side of it has been, you know, they've struggled in terms of trying to, I look at the PGM programs kind of went to the wayside.

strong enough to keep people coming into it. So they've had to adapt and change their, even to become a golf professional now is not perhaps quite as stringent as it used to be. They've had to make some modifications. To become a Class A, you still have to have your education. ⁓ So speaking of education, that's good segue. I would think that's critical in how we educate our people that want to go into the career. I can't stress that enough. ⁓

the networking in your industry, whether it's the PGA, whether it's the golf superintendents, whether it's club managers. It's so important to ⁓ aligned with that and stay aligned with some key people in the industry and have mentors. People that have been there, they may not be seeing a lot of the changes in the future, but they can guide you. One thing that's been pretty constant over 40 years. ⁓

what I talked about at the outset, the engagement, be it with staff or members. you can't connect, AI is not going to help you there. mean, you may be able to write a beautiful essay or be able to get tons of information so you can make great decisions. But if you can't connect person to person, that's going to be a real struggle for you. So I know that a lot of that comes with your own personality and how you

how you govern yourself. But I think moving forward, it's important we, and I try to do that, I'm part of a mentorship program with our own association. How do you help develop these guys that want them? Like a lot of them, it's, club management's so much more sophisticated than it was even when I started. And I started pretty young, and I was, but again, you're hanging off coattails, whether it's your board members or mentors that, I would ask a lot of questions and.

And they will help you, if that's only to a point, you have to invest in yourself. have to continue to be educated, you know, as this whole new, we just said, this whole new AI world. Continue to be educated in what are the key things with club management. And in my perspective, it's really the governance of clubs. So many people get that wrong. And I could go into a whole tangent on that, I won't, because I know we're somewhat limited, but the alignment between the board, the management, and the members.

and the staff is critical. And that all comes into how effective is your communication? How well can you lead the board? Like I have to lead from behind, but I also have to lead out front. And that's sometimes the tricky part, because you're bored or you report to people, you're really leading them. I have to lead a board. Because so many times, again, intuitively a guy gets on the board, says, well, I'm going to fix this or I'm going to do this.

I don't like this and I'm going to come on the board, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not your role. So it's about educating not just your staff, but your board members. We need your contribution. We're not for profit in private clubs. We don't have the luxury of layers of management. So when it comes to things like strategic planning or even some operational things like you want an accountant or you want a lawyer, things that they can guide you and give you the skills that you don't necessarily have in-house. So I rely on them as much as they rely on me.

So our board approach is very much a team. I look at my role as the managing director, even though my title's GM, I have a seat at the table, but I'm the managing director of this operation. And what I do is help them in the areas that they don't know about club management, but they know about finances, they know about legal stuff, they know about development, and that's why you draw on those skills and you make them feel very much a part of what...

of what the success is. It's not just Joe Murphy coming in here or John Smith in another club. It's about us and pulling that leadership team, which I include the board very much so. Sometimes the boards, especially at the nationals, sometimes they wanna push it off and one of you just make all this, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how it works. Some of my colleagues would love that. No, no, no. You're coming with me and we're all going through this together and we're gonna lead this club together.

and I need the skill sets that we don't necessarily have in-house. I need you as much as you need me. And those kind of skills have been learned over a lot of mistakes made in my time, but learning what is the right approach to a successful private club and how the governance model has to work this way in order for it to be successful. Otherwise, you have directors running in all sorts of directions. Good luck with

Clay (52:44)

And it sounds like it's, you know, correct me if I'm wrong. I have zero experience working with, ⁓ private golf club boards and teams and managers, but the manager's job is to delegate to his team. What is decided needs to be done. The board's job, each board member.

is more deliberating than they are delegating, right? They have to take information as to come to them. They have to discuss, they have to deliberate. They have to put their heads together, each in their respective lane and their specialty, and then bringing all that together in harmony to make decisions alongside the general manager, especially like yourself, you're a sitting member of the board as well. So you have a vote at the board, but then you're also the one,

They're not going talking to all the board members, right? They're talking to you. So there is that division, that one or two or three short, tight layers of management hierarchy versus many different layers and many different departments and divisions that all have a profit motive as their prime directive and everything kind of.

Joe Murphy (53:33)

Correct. Correct.

Clay (53:51)

focuses and orients around that being their prime directive versus you guys. It's how do we maintain membership, increase member satisfaction, increase MPS more than anything above all we can measure that we can manage that and we can have that be a

informing information that then goes back to the board with, more deliberation. And that's kind of a, it's a feedback loop between all the different, members, the staff, the board, and then it's a closed, it's a closed, ⁓ environment. It's not open to all these other market. You're not advertising. You're not doing all these other things. And then you can all, smaller team can then focus on the mission at hand. If that makes sense.

Joe Murphy (54:30)

Right. No, you're right. That's well put, Clayton. think the trick as well is, remember, in a not-for-profit private club, which most are, ⁓ the boards are volunteers. The committees are volunteers. One of the things that I've learned over my career is you can't hold volunteers accountable. They step in.

Clay (54:55)

very hard.

Joe Murphy (54:58)

They step in and they ⁓ contribute. As I said to you earlier, you need their skills. I could not be successful without a diverse board that's offering the skill sets. I know you can buy some of these skills or pick up the phone and call a lawyer and so on, but I'm talking about just general discussions and even discussions and decisions made at the board. It's their club. It's their interests.

those guys that step forward and do volunteer because it's important to continue the success of your club. Without it, then it's just Joe Murphy making the decisions and I'm not even sure that's aligned properly because I'm not an owner. I I manage their club for them and I lend my expertise in the areas that I know I can contribute. But at the end of day, it's their club and they have to...

Clay (55:43)

Yep. ⁓

Joe Murphy (55:55)

they have to invest in that and by doing so you get nine guys in our case that step up and volunteer on the board. Then we have other committee members and they're passionate about it because they want to contribute and that's what even makes it even greater. you know, but you said, as I said, you cannot hold them accountable. I'm the guy that's accountable. At the end of the day the buck stops here and that goes for any of the staff or any of the board because if this fails it's on Joe Murphy.

It's on the general manager. It's not on the board. It really isn't unless they have just completely screwed up. But that's where I have to step in. Now, the members on the other hand, if it's really failing, mean obviously they see the board as, then they've made the wrong decision perhaps with the general manager or we just have some communication breakdown. this role, and if I can help general managers today, the buck stops here.

You can't turn around to the board and say it, well, it's their fault. They didn't give me the right direction. Well, what did you ask for? Did you, I mean, you're the professional. When you step into this arena, you're the professional. They are not the professionals in club management. are the professionals in their own right. And they've been very successful in their own right. And you can draw a lot of information and guidance from that. But it's you that has to ultimately make the final decisions. And once you establish that, and once you establish that with your board,

and you're a team player, they'll always look to you to make the final decision or the final recommendation. The board itself makes the final decisions ultimately, but it's based on your recommendations. Then that's the proper governance model of a private club. And that's where I take that seriously. if you don't, if the general managers, and I've seen general managers over the year, they kind of blame the board and I scratch my head a little bit and say, well, really? I don't think so. I mean, then...

I'm not saying you get up the odd bad board member. Then you have to go to your president or if one's interfering and it's hard for you to control board members because they're members and they trump you as being a non-member and as manager. get it. if there's somebody preempting you from doing your job or continuing to be successful, then you have to go to your chairman or to your president and have that discussion with them to say, look, I got a problem. There's been managers that have gotten board members.

fired if you will. mean, it's just because they just get in your way. Just as you can get a bad employee, you can get a bad board member too. Hopefully, hopefully not. And I've been generally fortunate. I've had the odd one, but in my career, I've been very fortunate to have a lot of good committed board people, but it takes a lot of work. I have to put a lot of time and effort. And I personally, I have an individual relationship and a collective one with every single board member. I know what makes them tick and what are their...

priorities and what they're not and if I want to get something through at a board level it'll generally start at a committee but then I'll go and deal with individual board members just to get their feedback so when you walk into that boardroom you're pretty well rest assured that either you've got the recommendation approved or you don't have it approved. At least you'll know in advance. So there's some homework involved there's some relationship building and certainly even with new board members I make it a point to get to know

the new board members as well and bring them into my office and have a good talk with them so they understand where I'm coming from, what the management is, and they get to know me. And again, it all comes back to that fundamental relationship engagement that's so critical in order to be successful.

Clay (59:40)

Yeah. And it's, we're, I think we could go and do a whole episode. I'd like to actually do an episode in the future about governance, private membership, governance board. We can do a whole episode. We dig in and best practices, lessons learned from, you know, successes and struggles and, how AI potentially can help managers and owners and board members.

Joe Murphy (59:55)

Right.

Clay (1:00:03)

better organize themselves for board meetings, better distilled data down into actionable bite-size presentable pieces that don't waste everyone's time to get to. So there's tons of ways that that aspect of private club membership can be optimized and improved and innovated with AI. And so I want to transition. I know we're at the top of the hour and I want to respect your time. And there's just a couple more points I want to dig into and I want to just get a little...

a few of your thoughts on AI because you've worked in this industry for quite some time. You're a senior, you're an elder, you're a mentor and you've seen a lot. You've seen operational pain points from staffing and communication gaps and seasonal chaos, like you mentioned, and member service bottlenecks. And so without getting too technical or, know, what would you say are some of the most common day-to-day headaches of managing, owning, operating a private club that you think or that you hope

Or that you dream that tools like AI could help, know, maybe either now or in the future as it advances, but just based on what your understanding of the common day to day problems, if you could snap your fingers and make AI do something for you, what would you want it to do?

Joe Murphy (1:01:11)

you

Well, it's a very good point, in terms of... I've always been a believer that information is knowledge and knowledge is power. And there's so many times that a private club or a rumor mill gets flying around and everybody's got the wrong message or the facts. Remember the old drag net? You guys might be too young to remember drag. Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.

And it was always about, we need information. And once you ⁓ get that information, you're the holder of the knowledge. where I see AI coming in, even before AI, AI is just going to make it lot quicker and resourceful for sure. But even just through data collection, know, AI has really come to the forefront in last couple of years, but even go back.

five, 10 years ago, the more you can collect, the more data that you have at your disposal, the more knowledge that you have. No, no it's not. mean, you know, like for example, I'll give you a primary one was at our AGM, we wanted to, there was this whole perception of, you know, the whole food and beverage, we're pricing it too much, ⁓ the value perhaps isn't there.

So we conducted our own research and really drilled down on how this membership spends. What's the data, what's the information behind the whole spending patterns of our membership in food and beverage? And then we learned, and it's interesting, we came up with a lot of data points, but the key data point is about 30 % of the membership supports this club in terms of the food and beverage. Not that others don't spend it, but they either just spend their minimum.

or there's some that don't spend it at all. the reason I'm telling you the story is because the ask to the members is we wanted to introduce a food and beverage subsidy to help reduce pricing, give us some money up front so it isn't critical that we're having to charge, you're close to what restaurants charge to make our margins. What we do is our margins will shrink, you pay us, I think it was about 600 bucks a member, and the pricing is, you're gonna benefit.

And guess who benefits? The users. The users benefit now. So, and what I mean by the use of 30%. And why I'm telling you this story is because the more information that we drill down on, the members are just shocked and they remember this stuff. They're walking around saying, I'm not, I'm part of that 30%, I'm not part of that 70%, you know what I mean? They're like, they're now knowledgeable. And that's just a taste of what AI can bring to the table. I I can't.

I'm just scratching the surface. I'm a chat GBT user. haven't got into, I know they've introduced it in Excel and I know there's also, and you guys have introduced it in that I'm actually quite interested in this. I just haven't had a lot of the time and I'm interested in this whole reception. We don't have a receptionist at our club like some other clubs do because it's one, it's not busy enough on the phones, but because it's probably because we only really need a half a person. Well.

The other time people start to make a dining reservation, they don't get through to somebody or that the person has to call them back or they have to find who it is and they get their self-improvement. It's an area that we're probably not as efficient as we could be. And I'm more interested in what AI, and you guys I believe introduced this AI kind of receptionist. If somebody said, how can I help you? This automated voice said, well, I like to make a dining reservation for such a bingo. It goes right to that person.

and we can organize it in such a way that would be tremendous value. And we don't have a reception, and I don't want to hire, because I don't really need a full-time position. We need probably a part-time, and I don't mean part-time, certain hours, I don't even really know what the hours will look like in a day. It depends on when people call. But the one frustration I do get, and feedback I get from members, is that variably it's not getting through to the person, or it takes too long, or.

You know, and it's frustrating. Now, a club that has a receptionist and a reservation book, I guess it's not as challenging for them. But that's one thing I see as a real asset with AI. again, Clay, you guys know a lot more about it than I do, but it's, you know, I'm certainly from a management perspective, it makes a lot easier. I mean, I'll still write my own shell. I sort of majored in English a little bit, so I write my own shell, but I get AI to clean it up, and it's been fabulous. And just...

even if you want to do reports, it's just so much more time efficient. Just so you can get doing the things that you want to do, like engage with your members, go down and then see what's up, what's going on. I I'm a big believer by management by walking around, right? So MBWA, just get around and you see things. I'm a visual guy, I can't manage from my desk here. It doesn't work for me. I know I have an administrative responsibility, but it's...

It just kills me to sit here hour after hour. if there's any way that this automation or AI can bring to the table that can help me in this regard. Right now it's chat GBT. ⁓ It's so welcome. I can't imagine any other manager not saying the same thing. This has just really reduced the admin time. And as we continue to refine AI in this environment.

⁓ It'll just be great. I can spend more more time than the things that really matter, which is with your...

Clay (1:06:58)

Yep. And for those listening to call us, ask us for the golf club AI amplifier. has tons of cut and paste prompts. If you're not using chat, GPT, or even if you are, this can help you really, turbocharge it. And you know, like you said, it's the most important thing right now is for people. For, for managers, for owners of golf clubs to really just imagine what they want it to do.

And get creative. Like I wish it could do this. I wish it would be cool if it could do that. That's the space we're in right now, technically speaking, where if you can think about it and you can create ideas for what you want it to do there currently as it stands right now, there are software and there's ways to integrate different softwares that

If it's not, if it's not doable right now, it will be in three months, six months, 12 months. It's we're so close to the, like an almost an exponential hockey stick growth of, of capabilities and in every sector is that, it just a matter right now to get creative. and like you said, Joe, was the, ⁓ the technical stuff. It's the, ⁓ the call, the call management, a lot of clubs like

Like you said, to hire someone part time, seasonally part time, just to answer the phone. That's, that doesn't make sense. But with something like this, it can, it can do so much more than just answer the phone and take a booking. And this is where we encourage people listening, think about what could be done in your front house, back house, anything where a touch point with a member,

Ideally it can be a human touch point, but where it can't be a human touch point because people are busy. People have time off. People get sick. People have priorities like burning priorities right in front of them. The automations and the AI can tap in and do a lot of those things and get the information. And, you know, back to your point, you said about data, you get all this information right now. I encourage clubs to find out ways and to experiment with ways to gather as much Intel.

Joe Murphy (1:08:51)

Thank

Clay (1:09:08)

whether it's a private club, public clubs, semi-private club on every golfer, even if it's a one-off golfer, get as much intel as you can, as they're willing to provide. But if it's a member, a loyal member who's been there for years and years, there's, know,

Even with our bot, can send a member an email with a phone number and say, call this phone number, have a chat with our virtual assistant. It's going to ask you a bunch of questions. Just answer the questions as you see fit. You know, in your own time, it'll probably take you 10, 15 minutes to do. You don't get to type.

Joe Murphy (1:09:29)

you ⁓

Clay (1:09:38)

People don't like typing. like their thumbs are tired. People on their phones all day long. People can talk though. And if they can tell this thing what they want and what they don't like and what they do like and what they wish the club would do this year for them personally and for the club overall. And all this goes into their member database, their CRM profile. And now you have all these notes on all these members. You can feed all of that into AI and then we can start being like, okay, I can't read all this. That's like.

500 pages of notes for the last month or the last season. I'm not reading all that. You tell me the actionable insight and the actionable steps that we can start doing for Mr. Smith or Mr. Stevens or whomever, right? What do they really like and what do they really care about? And how do we make that, ⁓ increase their member experience?

with this Intel without us having to sift through pages and pages and pages of data to know what to do with it. Right. So the data accumulation is one aspect, but then what do do with it and how do you make it quick and easy for everyone to, to extract the most benefit out of from staff and for, and for the members.

Joe Murphy (1:10:30)

Yeah.

And there are lives where I think the value of AI comes in. right, you can get gads of data. The amount of data available to us is mind boggling.

It's how it's refined. And even so, ⁓ you know, taking it beyond, you know, what we, the reception and what we talked about is I really, fascinated what it will be for the agronomy, the golf course, like things like identifying ⁓ sort of fungal or funguses that there might be, there might be, you know, some real dry spots in the, I mean, things that, ⁓ you know, we see with the naked eye, but maybe there's ways AI is going to be able to identify that and tell

where there's problem areas are going to be and we can address those. So it isn't about I mean I think there's a fear sometimes at AI like especially on the golf course you got these ⁓ autonomous mowers and things like that and I know they're coming and we got another one in here that we're going to try out this year it's a little bigger it's going to cover a few holes we want to try it out but think think what it can do it can cut at night.

And you could cut your grass at night. Right now we have problems with noise bylaws. can't really cut, well we cheat because we get out at 5.30 6.00, you're not supposed to start cutting until 7.00, but we stay away from the homes. But those have been frustrating for me, the calls that I would get this time of year, your car of course crew is cutting grass too early.

Or, know, why am I hearing the leaf blower at 6.30 in the morning? I mean, these autonomous mowers have an extreme value there that you can get and they cut consistently. There's no human error. So that rough, for example, is always going to be there. I've watched some of the outgroud. Now, this only a small unit, but I've watched what it can do and it's amazing. And ⁓ the same would apply at any other, I'm sure any other applications that you're going to put it to use.

No, it's absolutely, it's gonna be a manager. It's like, I was of the era when computers came in, like the desktops. And I used to do a lot of the bookkeeping by hand years ago at a club and I remember we were all afraid, my God, if these computers are coming in? And now you think of what's, this is the biggest thing since that era and that was what, when did the personal computer come in? About 30 years ago? Somewhere around, I it was the midnight, or well, no, even before that, probably maybe 40 years ago.

It was around the mid 80s, as I recall. And so this is another revolutionary, I mean, it's evolved. know there's been a lot of things evolved since, but this is the next revolutionary thing in my opinion. It's like when the desktop computers came in. Excuse me.

Clay (1:13:19)

100%. And I think right now

is a rare opportunity for clubs and the clubs that get ahead of this. They will be able to do this first and they will set the new standard and the new bar. And everyone else will just be playing catch up to different degrees, which is, it be a game. It should be on, you know, part of the divisioning, uh, strategy sessions for all the people that decide where the club goes. It should be, you know, we're not going to try to fire anybody. have 20 people, 50 people, a hundred people working here. Let's try to keep them all here.

Let's try to not, employ or, or save money in reducing labor drastically, right? Maybe one or two people who were kind of on their way out. They were ready to go anyways. They weren't really into it. You could probably reduce a few of those people that are kind of kicking the can and hanging around and, know, doing all the other stuff that doesn't really add value. But the majority of the people that work in any private public semi-private is if they're freed up from the grunt work, the monotonous computer work and the time consuming email.

Joe Murphy (1:14:02)

Right.

Clay (1:14:19)

responses, the spreadsheets, all of this stuff. If they're done that element of their work in one 10th or one 20th or one hundredth of the time it takes to be done and they're done. Well, guess what? Now, potentially they have 30 hours a week that they could be just interacting with members, hanging out with members, talking with members, asking members how they're doing and the golf clubs that are able to pretty much make all their staff.

⁓ available and free from the moment they walked into the moment they go home five days a week. Those golf clubs are going to have a astronomical ⁓ advantage over the clubs where people are just stuck behind computers. They're in email up to their ears because it's not just the member experience. It's the staff. If you want your staff to run from your club and run to your competitors club as fast as, as your head will spin, don't do this stuff and let your competitors do this stuff and let the staff ⁓ work experience be so improved and so optimized.

Joe Murphy (1:15:00)

Thank

Clay (1:15:13)

I'm so low stress that

Joe Murphy (1:15:14)

you

Clay (1:15:14)

people are be fighting to get into your golf club because they're like these guys have AI doing the majority of my work. literally get to check my email for 30 minutes in the morning. All the emails are written for me in my voice because we've trained it to know my voice, know my role, know my position. We've trained my personal agent to do that for me. Well, guess what? By 10 30, I'm done on my emails for the day and done on my computer work for the day. And it's working in the background where I come back tomorrow. And the thing I was working to it's done for me tomorrow by my AI assistant. So now I can go

go

out and shoot a couple rounds with our with our top players, our top members who are here who haven't spent enough time within the last year. Last year they barely saw me. This year they're never going to not see me. They're going to see me hanging out all the time now and that's going to just increase. Again, no one's used to that right now. That's not the norm. So one club that can do that.

Joe Murphy (1:15:43)

Perfect.

Clay (1:16:01)

Other clubs are be like other members, other guests at different clubs are to be like, wait a minute. I went to national, I was a guest. I went with my friend and man, they have a totally different program over there. I don't know how they're doing it, but all their staff seem to be available and ready for us whenever we need them. No one's disappeared in offices. Everyone's around. That's, that's something that AI can do. And so

It shouldn't be the goal shouldn't be, we have a hundred staff AI comes in great 50 staff. We can run this place on 40 staff or 30 staff. It's like, no, well, we already had in our finances to plan to pay a hundred people. Why not keep paying them? And then now they're all free. They all have this time back. like, well, now we can get creative. We can like literally have games and experiments for how to wow new members. And it can be a new KPI that clubs can have for every staff member is

Joe Murphy (1:16:22)

Mm-hmm.

Clay (1:16:47)

How do you wow a member? How do you wow a member? How do you wow a member? All of, and every different department, every different role, they know exactly what they need to be doing with their free time to wow members. And so if the member just walks in and by the time they're walking out, there's 20 different experiences they had where they were like, wow, that never happened here before. Wow. That never happened at any golf club I've ever been at before. That's a wow experience. One or two of those can increase someone's ⁓ overall perception of your brand and your club.

Joe Murphy (1:16:59)

Right.

Clay (1:17:15)

five to 10, 10 to 20 on a recurring basis being wild like that. And you're like, you're like slingshotting ahead of everyone else in the industry. So this is where we're at right now. The tech is there. It can be done. So I, that's why I always ask to, you know, managers that really think about it, get creative and think about it and we can, we can do it for you.

Joe Murphy (1:17:20)

Mm-hmm.

And I think it's...

And that's exciting times. really have to admit it's, it's, there's a symposium coming up. One of our consulting firms is hosting it in June. They're asking for topics that I would say AI, let's talk about it. This is what, where's it, where's it to make the biggest impact in our industry? And I think you've said it well, Clayton, in terms of, of, you know, freeing up our time and a lot of the administrative doldrums, if you will.

And or even just prioritizing, helping you to prioritize. mean, you know, look, it's not going to get us out of our offices entirely, but it's still, it's going to minimize your time here and allow you to get out and do the things that are, put your resources where you need to have the resources. Right? I mean, that's, I used to know a fellow and I always remember he owned a few franchise of a service master and I always loved his line. He said, he said, I always put the dollars where the dirt is.

Clay (1:18:20)

Exactly.

Joe Murphy (1:18:31)

He's a carpet cleaner and I was great, know. Put your dollars where the dirt is and you know, that's the same kind of thing. Put your energy, your resources where it matters most and don't worry about all this other stuff that AI and I can see it. I'm only, like I said, I always skim the surface. I'd love to learn a lot more about it and what it's capability, what capabilities as it relates to club management. I mean, the new i16, I just got the iPhone 16.

wow, there's a lot of AI technology in that. Especially when it comes to email prioritization and all that. I it's actually pretty cool.

Clay (1:19:07)

built in now. It's built into the hardware now. It's part of the operating system. Not even a doubt. There's additional apps, but it's built into the firmware of the operating system in your new hardware now. So it's not going nowhere guys. It's not going nowhere.

Joe Murphy (1:19:09)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Brad (1:19:20)

No,

Joe Murphy (1:19:20)

No, no, it's good. It's

Brad (1:19:20)

no.

Joe Murphy (1:19:21)

here to stay. And it's just, it's amazing because some of it's not just the information, it's what it does with the information and that's critical.

Brad (1:19:30)

100%.

Joe Murphy (1:19:31)

I'm all for it. I'd be

happy to I'm going to continue to in my travels to encourage our consultants and people that are speaking to our industry like you guys to, okay, know, what's next? What do we have to do? We need to be educated on it. How do we use this to the best of our...

Brad (1:19:51)

Yeah, definitely. And that's basically why we created this podcast, right? Was to help, you know, create a think tank to, have general managers on here, to have golf club owners, to have golf pros on here and really figure out, ⁓ where the holes are in their operations, where technology is actually bogging them down, where AI can come in and kind of clean that up for them. And then again, we're not trying to replace people. just trying to get your staff, especially if you have charismatic leaders at your club.

who are designed to be in front of people, interacting with people, ⁓ really adding that human touch. It's actually going to make your operation more human, right? Because you have humans playing golf. It's a human game. Nobody's going to want a back shop golf pro or sorry, a robot back shopper or robot golf pro showing up and interacting with them. They're going to be like, this is, we've gone too far. We need humans back here.

Joe Murphy (1:20:31)

Right.

It might be coming though Brad.

Brad (1:20:47)

Yeah, I know, know,

I know. Gotta work on that, Joe. But, ⁓ yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you never know. But yeah, Joe, this has been,

Joe Murphy (1:20:50)

Yeah.

Brad (1:28:49)

All right. Okay. Yeah. So this has been great, Joe. Let's, let's take it home with a few rapid fire questions to round this out. Quick answers only, no overthinking. What's your favorite golf course you've ever played?

Joe Murphy (1:29:02)

I have to say Hamilton Gove and Castor.

Brad (1:29:04)

The tough one.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great spot. Who's been the most influential mentor in your life?

Joe Murphy (1:29:16)

My life or my career?

Brad (1:29:18)

Either or. Either or.

Joe Murphy (1:29:20)

career would have been the general manager of Hamilton Golf back in the day when I was a food and beverage manager. name was John Mickle. Wonderful man. Long since retired, but a great mentor.

Brad (1:29:34)

Yeah.

Awesome. What's a book or resource that's had a lasting impact on you professionally?

Joe Murphy (1:29:44)

I think there's probably two. The first one is The One Minute Manager. Remember, Kent Blanchard, it was a great read and I still refer to it now and again. The other one, which was more recent, was Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Gadara. I think he really nailed it. He gets it. So those are the two books.

Clay (1:30:04)

You've heard of that one.

Brad (1:30:10)

Awesome. Yeah, we've heard that that second one that's been mentioned a few times actually in speaking to GMs. ⁓ How do like to unwind after a long day at the club?

Joe Murphy (1:30:23)

Maybe I have a bit of a passion for wines and different wines. Although I do like to have it, although not every day, but I certainly do like to enjoy a glass of wine with my wife or sometimes just even go for a walk in the evenings is quite nice as well.

Brad (1:30:38)

Yep, good balance there. ⁓ So here's the big one. What advice would you give the 25 year old you if you were just starting on your career journey again, but today in 2025?

Joe Murphy (1:30:50)

More education. To get more entrenched in what the industry education. I don't know if it was available to me as much back then, but today, be educated and stay networked with your colleagues.

Brad (1:31:09)

Yeah, 100%. That's great way to wrap there, Joe. So thank you again. We know your time is valuable, especially with you guys opening. So we really appreciate you doing this with us. This discussion was packed with actionable wisdom and it was great learning about your leadership journey, your insights into what makes a great club tick and your honest thoughts on the future of our industry, especially around technology. I know our listeners are going to get a ton of value out of this conversation. So thanks again, Joe.

Joe Murphy (1:31:20)

I could.

Thank you, Brad. Thank you, Clay.

Clay (1:31:41)

Yeah, thank you, Joe. And, you know, it's not every day we get to hear from someone who's, you know, seen it all and has done a considerable amount in their career, but, you know, continues to lead with ⁓ clarity and class and makes it look easy and sound easy. So, you know, thank you again for being here and sharing it all with us.

Joe Murphy (1:32:00)

Thank you very much, gentlemen. All the best. We'll chat soon. Bye bye.

Clay (1:32:03)

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank

you. And for everyone listening, don't forget, you can also call 1-866-838-8581. Ask our AI receptionist for the free golf club AI amplifier to help you make the best of chat GPT starting today. And that's it for today. Thanks for tuning in to the Ace Call AI podcast where we help golf club owners and managers win with AI. I'm Clayton Elliott and we'll see you next time.

Brad (1:32:28)

and I'm Brad Milligan.