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Inside West Haven: Culture, Leadership, and AI with GM Jeff Pacheco

In this episode of The AceCall.ai Podcast, we sat down with Jeff Pacheco, General Manager of West Haven Golf and Country Club in London, Ontario.

With a background that spans hotel hospitality and a longstanding role as head coach of Western University’s field hockey team, Jeff brings a refreshingly people-first, business-savvy perspective to private club management.

Early in the conversation, Jeff shares how his unique career path helped him transition into the golf industry with a deep understanding of service, budgeting, and operational structure.

At West Haven, he's cultivated a professional yet down-to-earth culture that emphasizes transparency, empowerment, and trust across departments.

His leadership philosophy? Build a team of future GMs by giving department heads the tools, trust, and belief to lead.

One of the standout discussions in the episode centers around event innovation.

Jeff walks us through how he’s rethinking tournaments and member engagement—highlighting his creative new “9 & 9” format designed to attract a broader range of participants while increasing banquet space usage and non-dues revenue.

His focus is on flexibility, fresh ideas, and listening closely to what members value most.

When it comes to staffing and retention, Jeff emphasizes the importance of not being a “clock-watcher,” but instead trusting staff to deliver and empowering them with responsibility.

He’s seeing stronger applicant pools than in years past, a testament to West Haven’s growing reputation as a great place to work.

On the AI front, Jeff is bullish—especially when it comes to food and beverage.

He explores how AI could help automate things like velocity reports, prep forecasting, member preferences, and even proactive service triggers based on member behavior.

While he admits he’s no tech expert, he’s clear that the future belongs to clubs who embrace these tools to improve both operations and the member experience.

From managing committees and capital improvements to leveraging social media and building long-term culture, Jeff offers GMs a masterclass in thoughtful, balanced leadership.

If you're looking for real-world insights from a club manager who’s innovating while staying grounded in people-first leadership, this is one episode you won't want to miss.

🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows.
📞 Call 1-866-838-8581 to test our AI Receptionist or get your free copy of The Golf Club A.I. Amplifier™.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Clay (00:03)

Welcome to the Ace Call AI podcast where we help golf club managers win with AI. Managing a golf club today is harder than ever. So we created simple AI solutions and a podcast to make it easier for you. I'm Clayton Elliott.

Brad (00:19)

And I'm Brad Milligan. Together, we bring a mix of entrepreneurial innovation and decades of golf club management experience to help you optimize your club, increase profitability, and elevate the golfer experience. So let's dive in. Today's guest is someone who truly exemplifies leadership in modern golf club management. We're joined by Jeff Bacheco, the general manager of West Haven Golf and Country Club in London, Ontario. In terms of club managers,

Jeff has a bit of a distinctive career path and that's part of why we wanted to interview him. He brings a steady mix of service, business acumen, people first leadership and a deep respect for the tradition of the game. At West Haven, he's been instrumental in transforming the club into one of the top private golf experiences in the region, not only through exceptional service and course quality, but through creating a culture that genuinely puts members first.

Jeff also is the head coach of the field hockey team at Western University and has been doing so for over 17 years. It's safe to say Jeff is a proficient leader in many aspects of his life and was gracious enough to join us today to have a chat about his operation in the future of AI tech within the industry. And while Jeff will be the first to say he's no AI expert, he's incredibly bullish on how this technology is poised to reshape the golf industry. And he's here to share how he's...

thinking about that evolution as another forward thinking GM. Jeff, thanks for joining us. We're honored to have you on the podcast today.

Jeff Pacheco (01:47)

Thanks for having me, gentlemen.

Brad (01:49)

pleasure. So I alluded to the fact that you had a bit of a distinct career path in comparison to some of the other general managers we've interviewed so far. We see you have worked a great deal in the hotel and hospitality industry. Could you please give us a quick overview of your career path and how working in a different hospitality niche has helped you in your current role at West Haven?

Jeff Pacheco (02:10)

Absolutely. So starting in the food and beverage side, you're...kind at the beck and call of when everybody else wants to kind be at the table, whether that's evenings, weekends. So I want to strike the right balance of work and life. So also while continuing the coaching, because that also happens at the same time. So started studying hotels, got into the hotel space and the sales side of it, quickly escalated from sales manager, director of sales to regional to national in a variety of different brands, realizing that family was on the horizon. It's tough to be a good dad in Kelowna for two months of the time so it's time to come back home to London and at that point I got onto a property as a general manager and you you see a lot of optics in that lane that have a lot of synergies with the golf industry especially the budgeting, the control aspect, the expense side operational wise in terms of you know a front desk being

the same as more or less a pro shop in terms of that frontline ambassador. So West Haven happened to call at the right time and say that the general manager position is open so threw my hat in the ring and being here and understanding who the members were prior and then bringing me back was a bit of an asset for me. So here I am now three years into this post and could be happier. You know in the opening there you said instrumental.

I'd love to say that is the case, but you know I have a stellar team, that, department heads that I lean on day in day out for you know the right education, the right guidance. In my opinion a general manager is just that has general knowledge in all of these lanes. I'm not the expert, they are and how do I guide with what financial resources, mental resources I need to help them with to ultimately provide the best member experience here at West Haven.

Brad (04:18)

Yeah, yeah, that's great. I like hearing about different ways and means people use and past they travel to arrive at their career goals. It's always special to hear that. So, you know, West Haven really stands out as a well managed operation based on what we could research on it online. And like all clubs, I'm sure it begins with having a solid team that promotes the club culture, like you mentioned there. You've created a culture that feels both professional and personal, which is tough to balance. What are some of the philosophies or principles or precepts that

guide your approach to running West Haven on a day-to-day basis.

Jeff Pacheco (04:53)

You know, having sort of general partners and limited partners being an equity-based course, there's a lot of transparency into the financial statements, balance sheet, trial sheet, all these things. So in understanding that, you know, you could have a retired...

high-end executive bankers sitting on the other side of the table. you know, being aware of how that financial statement is flowing with an income statement month over month, sitting with department heads and understanding, okay, this is where we are now, this is where we're going to be, understanding that there's more spends this time of year in April in the grounds department. So how does that affect things? Am I alarmed now that he's skyrocketed to 90 % of his budget spend in that category?

Or is that the typical trend? So understanding the ebbs and flows inside some of those financial statements will help them find the safety they want to be able to not look like they're making a mistake because that stuff can wear on people because it's technically it's not their money but they feel like they have a sense of it that it is because they have you know in my opinion you know there should be restrictors on all these general ledger numbers whether it's chemical and grounds or new cutlery and food and beverage so but if they know they have that spend they can operate their own business inside this business to find success and we work back and forth with ideas theory whatever it might be

to adapt new ideas, not get left behind. And with that, there's a lot of things that are evolving. But that day-to-day transparency, labour obviously is a expense in this industry. How do you manage labour when you're looking at financial statements quarterly? You've missed the boat, right? So relying on them on a regular basis to get it right, along with that financial statement sort of vacuuming along the way.

Brad (06:56)

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. I mean, it's so important. The team that you build, uh, that you have trust in them as well. Right. It's, and, and, and that doesn't turn you into this micromanager, right. Where you're having to actually, you know, stay on top of them constantly and, and put your finger in every pile. I always like to say, like, nobody likes that person who comes along and is, is trying every single pilot and it's like, Oh, that one's too sweet. That one's too sour. Uh, so yeah, that's a great approach right there.

Jeff Pacheco (07:19)

Thank

Clay (07:23)

Yeah, and I would just add as well, like that level of clarity in leadership is really important, especially, you know, as club managers, they're, we're facing, you know, some tough headwinds ahead, you know, it's between shifting.

Remember demographics and buying patterns and what was normal years ago, as far as how people spent money and played golf and the predominant group of people who played golf is shifting as people age out and, know, hang up their clubs once and for all. And young people step into the game who love the game, but maybe don't have as much disposable income, right? It changes everything how clubs operate in the next five to 10 years and even two to three years ahead and beyond.

staffing issues, rising costs, like you mentioned, it's, it's, it's definitely a lot. And so it's, it's very valuable to have, you know, guiding principles and, structures and policies and procedures that you and everyone in your team can follow, right? That, can inform and can influence everything you do, everything they do in their own, like mini business within the club, like you mentioned, especially like in these very chaotic and, and uncertain times.

Jeff Pacheco (08:34)

Yeah, to piggyback off that, I tell my department heads, you want this seat. You are capable of doing this seat. And if they can believe in that, belief is so powerful. And sure, you've got to understand it, speak to it, present it.

small stage, big stage, whatever it is. But, you know, a grounds superintendent, does he want to be doing that at 60? Could he land in this seat and have a club that supports him greatly because he's turned their turf department around 360 or 180, whatever is needed there to refresh it, reset it and find success. So I build that way that anybody that's alongside could be in my seat.

I feel that's the truest way to lead.

Clay (09:28)

Yeah. And that's actually, it's, it's funny you mentioned that because just yesterday we had, another guest on, on another episode and we were talking about the best leaders aren't the ones with the most followers. They're the ones who cultivate the most leaders. We're supposed to be like replicating ourselves, right? If we're leading people because something happens, you break an ankle, you get sick, you get hurt. Something happens in a family. You got to step out. If you're like, my gosh, no one in this entire club can take over my role.

Jeff Pacheco (09:42)

Yeah, I love that.

Clay (09:57)

I've siloed myself and I've kept all of the keys and all of the secrets to myself. And I've empowered no one, even if you've shared the keys and the secrets, you've empowered no one with the belief that they can do it. And if you tell someone like, this, I'm here, I'm the general, I'm the generalist sitting in the, the, managers, the head captain chair. But if I'm a generalist sitting in this chair, like you said, the, groundskeeper who's got 20, 30 years of experience in his department, if he knows just enough or can learn or can be coached or can be supported.

Jeff Pacheco (10:07)

toilet.

Clay (10:27)

to learn those other departments with time and with some coaching and consulting and mentoring, he could step into it as well, just as much as you could coming from the hospitality background or someone else coming from the golf pro background. So, and then like you said, you get to a point where they're like, Hey, I'm ready to take my own club. And you're like, great, man. Like all the power to you, man. That's you've earned it. You've earned it at this point. And when people, when your, when your staff know that that's your ethos and that's your, the spirit of how you lead.

Jeff Pacheco (10:42)

Precisely.

Clay (10:56)

They want to follow you. want to stay with you. They don't, they're not in a rush to run away and jump ship to a new ship. They want to stay with you on your ship. Cause you know, good captains are hard to come by.

Jeff Pacheco (11:06)

Yeah, and you know, I think it's a compliment to get poached, to be honest. You know, I wouldn't be in the seat if there wasn't poaching happening in my career in the past.

Yeah, it hurts to lose some key pieces, but the moment somebody begins to be poached, have an honest relationship with your peer or boss or mentor and say, this is what's happening. Don't necessarily, in my opinion, use it as just leverage to come back to the trough and say, want more money because Jimmy down the street's offering me X-Mount more. Let me help you. Let me understand that this is a really good fit for you. It is not always the case where it's greener on the other side, but they do have to explore

and

learn new things and help them grow at the same time too. So I'd rather write the reference letter and work on people that are maybe at that club to influence sort of how things can happen or unfold a long time.

Clay (12:05)

Yeah. And I was, I've been in recruitment for some time as well previously, and there's lots of reasons people leave jobs. and it's not always because like you said, the grass is greener or they just want more cash or they go back to their current guy and they're like, listen, I just got poached. I need 30 grand more. I'm out of here. Right. It's, it's, not always like that. The current employer can make a counter offer, but if, if even more money, if the

If there's a glass ceiling above them, as far as roles, want to step into a responsibility they want to take on an extra 20 grand won't give them that experience. An extra 20, 30 grand won't give them that, opportunity to step into a new role and really grow and expand themselves. They might have to move to another club to get that opportunity, which is fine. you don't want to keep them there. You don't want to clip their wings. and as long as people know that they appreciate knowing that they're not.

under your thumb, know, they're not being held there. There's they're not being manipulated to stay there. They could, they're free agent. They can stay if they want, they can go if they want. You recognize and respect their autonomy and surprise, surprise people want to stay when you, when you have those, all those things in place.

And so I guess, you know, one of my, one of the questions we like to ask everyone, and we like to hear your thoughts on it, but, and this will transition into some of the other parts of the conversation want to get to, but what are, you know, as you look at in your club and observing your club, but also extrapolating, knowing that many of the challenges you face in your club, they,

kind of fan out and are universal across clubs across Ontario, Southern Ontario, Canada, the US universally, globally. What are some of the biggest challenges that you're seeing in your club management, but also in golf club management as a whole? And how are you responding, adapting and kind of taking them on?

Jeff Pacheco (14:04)

Yeah, good question. You know, if you were to own a business that produces X amount of revenue, I don't think you have a board alongside you that's external. You know, the golf industry has these internal boards and committees that are

long-standing tradition of how they manipulate good or bad, how the course goes. You know, I've worked in hotels in the past that produce three or four times the revenue that I've ever dealt with here and I don't have any transient members sitting around the table telling me that I need to forecast the rate on Easter weekend to be X price. Whereas in the golf industry you have this inner fabric of, you know, his and her committees and board of directors that are

or limited partnership committees in our case that are really propelling what the identity of the club is and what their member experience needs to be because, you know, they're the people around our table that own the course as well, that have an equity in it. So you have to really take on that sense from that group of what it looks like. Whereas in the past, you know, that doesn't happen in other businesses. It's a better, rare and unique piece in the golf industry that

Like every committee that you deal with, there's a lot of layers and know history there. How long has that person been on it? Do they have terms involved? How well are these meetings being handled? Is things putting to vote? it things in favour? You know, they're lobbying on behalf of the rest of limited partners in our case. you know having 10 to 12 people around the table, you got to hope that you're gathering all the right information. But at end of the day, sometimes you know these committees are bit self-serving. And so how do

you filter out that self-serving mentality. So I think that's a struggle universally across the golf industry.

you know, some GMs might be a little bit more like curt and straight to the point that that's not going to fly. Being a bit on the younger side and relatively newer to this post, I want to respect sort of the legacy in place, but at the same time understand where the spend needs to happen, whether that's a big capital project or a little one. You know, if Mr. Smith at the table says, you know, hey, that Bush on three is really bothering me, you know,

to action that tomorrow for the superintendent or is that just him kind of being annoyed with it? So it's really interesting that model that exists in these golf courses and I just don't know how that changes to be honest because they're buying into the club and they're a peer to the club in terms of what they want and experience and now they're a voice of many more so you know that's the one thing that I think is a challenge I just don't know how to get over it.

Brad (17:04)

Yeah, a hundred percent. Like I've, I've, obviously sat on committees before, pretty much every committee. and you, you, you touched on it there. There you have that, that self-serving agenda that can sneak in and an issue is when, boards become operational, right? So they start, they start like taking your, you know, what they hired you to do and they start kind of shifting that. And then they can, they can become.

so destructive if they don't, if they're not kept on a leash, right? Like if you have a very strong, and it's usually type a very strong personalities on these boards, because you know, they've, they've run clubs, like you said before, these people come from a different background. They might be in finance, they could be a banker. so they have all this expertise that they need to bring to the table or they want to bring to the table and help the club, but it's filtering out that is, is this for just this individual? Do they, do they want this done?

for them and their buddies, or is it for the club in general? it for the betterment of the entire membership? So, you know, I always, I always said when I was like, you know, working at a club, it's like, want to treat the, you know, the five game 85 year old woman, the same as the club champion, right? You always have to have this kind of, this, this level of, of, of, you know, the way that you treat people and you've got to keep that a standard. And that goes with your board members as well. It's, like, you know, is, this for the, the, betterment of the club?

And I think, a really strong general manager will actually step up and, and, say, no, right. You can't get walked over when you, when you, when you know, it's not good for the club and it's not the right direction to go in. think, you know, stepping up and saying, Hey, that's not the best idea for, this golf club. It's not going to lead us in the correct direction. so yeah, let's shift gears a little bit and talk about, about club events. it feels like the standard calendar just isn't enough anymore. Members are craving experiences that feel curated and memorable.

How do you see the future of club events and tournaments evolving and what trends are you already acting on to keep your programming fresh and exciting?

Jeff Pacheco (19:11)

Yeah, it is a chase environment these days where you're constantly experimenting and hoping that, you know, things land. Whenever you host an event, you want the hope that there's glue from the membership that they come through and have a great time. You know, when we started building the 20, 25 programming, we tried to think outside of the box. So, you know, we have a salsa night coming through. You have some of your staple ones, know, seafood night, Scotch and bourbon night with some cigars.

They're very price sensitive still unfortunately and we want to give a great experience but at the same time we have to really keep a close eye on the spend and it goes with everything you know to go out for dinner even at the keg these days it seems expensive and so how do you provide you know that opulence for a good price point

So internally, think we just want our members to continue to think of us first. In the corporate world, I'm experimenting with...

There's a standard full day tournament starts at 1, gone by 8 or starts at 9 in the morning, gone by 5 or 6. But I'm actually toying with a new tournament here personally. It's not a new idea by any means, but it's a 9-9. I think the corporate play when you have lot of people that don't typically play golf, I think 9 holes is sufficient. So we're going to run the front and the back 9, fill them both up, and then come in for dinner after.

You know those that have been in the golf game always know about the nine and nine opportunities and how they can be a lot of fun and good fit and it's not big time suck. So I'm rolling that into a tournament that has a bit of an older age population.

so they only want to play nine so it kind of works. I'm taking the course offline around four o'clock. Typically I did some math. There's not a lot of membership play from 3 30 onwards on these Saturdays so

With the wedding segment sort of dropping off and softening tremendously, I have to explore other areas to fill the banquet space. So I'm hoping that this has some good feedback and we run it well so that we can maybe pivot a little bit more. No member wants to see the T-sheet offline, of course, but again, in this equity space here, I'm going to try to make some revenue so that we keep things pretty, you know, 2 to 3 % membership increase year over year.

revenue

coming in then you know ultimately they're getting dinged and they don't love that so it's a bit of an experience but that's one of the ideas that I'm hoping that tournaments maybe go to.

Brad (22:00)

Yeah, hundred percent. And, and I think that's a good, you know, it's a good motto to have because you, you need to engage these, you know, these newer members, like people who might be thinking about, you know, taking up the game or maybe they just started, maybe they're a spouse of somebody who is a member and it's how to keep them engaged. And nine and dines are a great way. you know, even like, we ran some tournaments with some food stations out there.

Just on course food stations and drink stations and things like that. There's so many ways to spice it up to not make it about the golf. Because a lot of new people who come into the game, they're embarrassed because their skill level isn't where they think it should be. They haven't participated in any clinics or anything like that. Clay's raising his hand over there because he's fresh to the game. So Clay is going to love the nine and dines. He's to be a big fan of those.

Jeff Pacheco (22:51)

Yeah, and.

You mentioned the sampling, know, there's layers there too, right? Like if they're sampling food, you know, you want to help local vendors to the best you can and also products that you're bringing in-house that say, hey, we want to sample not just liquids, but food. And so, you know, do due diligence, do the health inspection report because technically it's their food they're cooking in. You know, take that extra step and get that paperwork done. Put it in their hands to get it done because if anything happens,

Brad (22:58)

Yeah.

Jeff Pacheco (23:23)

and the inspector comes through, hey man, you didn't take that 10 minutes to just get it done. You never know what can happen. So on that sampling side, especially the food, and even the liquor, even ice cream, whatever it might be, just do the due diligence there is my recommendation.

Brad (23:37)

Yeah,

totally. I couldn't agree more. So yeah, a little bit of a shift here. So that kind of member experience only happens when you've got a dialed in team, right? But we've been touching on this, but the labor market's been tough the last few years. What have you learned about hiring and retaining top talent in this type of climate?

Jeff Pacheco (23:58)

I think it's changed since COVID, even slightly before COVID where, you know, you, I mean, in London here, we have a decent population, but sometimes it was through COVID like, hey, you're showing up.

you look capable, like you're in the mix. And what I've seen this year in 25 as we were building for the season, we could be selective again. The labor market was furious with a lot of resumes and there's way more talent out there this year than I've seen in the last 10 years to be honest. From back shop, pro shop, food and beverage to grounds, it was impressive to see how much was there, but I

We didn't quite pivot in terms of knowing that we could be that selective because we still had an older mindset So it really depends on a what position you're looking to post for if it's executive team Maybe you want to give a longer rope Some of those hourly positions there that look that's that's the fill that I'm talking about more. So that has been greater than the past You know, I think the other piece is is you have to learn how to assess talent coming into this role here

You know in previous roles I had to you know

hire a whole new province worth of sales managers and directors of sales. And so it's tricky. You're playing with people's livelihood and there's tons of emotion involved. And at the same time, you have a deliverable that has to be met. so, you know, removing somebody from their post is a large part of maybe finding internal success. So you have to assess really well in all facets. Doing, you know, those quick connects,

that are evaluation based being like, hey, we had that function yesterday, you did this, this, and this really well, you have some areas where we can get a little bit better on, they might be this and this. How great day, let's get to it, right? So, and at the same time, as I mentioned earlier, these financial statements arise and things like say, hey, we're losing steam here big time, what can we do to build back up?

they have to buy in in those senses and if they don't then it's one of those things where I might need AI on that voicemail.

to more or less understand that they're not toying the rope and so that you know maybe you need somebody that's new in there. I hate the adage, well that's the way it's always done here. I hate it. I hate it. hate it. I hate it. My answer to that is go down the street, buy her for sale sign, leave it at the front gate when you come in bud because that mentality, it can't withstand anymore. There's so many things that are evolving right across the board. You're gonna get left behind if you say this is the way we've always done it here.

And so I think that's part of the evolution of retention as well. If they can pivot into what's happening and tech's getting better, laborers are being younger, you know, there's so many things that are evolving and if you don't have that evolution, then you can't retain yourself. leadership, obviously it's very important, you know, being available.

retention side, how do you assess them on a regular basis on an evaluation front. Don't just do one annual appraisal and think that's good enough. Something that happens in June, like you said, could be fixed in June. Now we're waiting until January to have that happen. always have that open door policy I think helps too.

Clay (27:45)

Yeah. And like, it's a common adage and we agree, you know, systems are great. They can help so much, but culture is king. It is the driving engine of your business. If the people aren't on board with the system and they don't press the proper button to make it work, your system's done. It's only as good as the people who are behind it. And, know, great people, they stay where they feel part of something meaningful. They feel respected. They feel like they're.

desire for career growth or career stability, right? Where they are, both of those are honored and respected and they can get what they want out of it, right? If everyone's operating on mutual self-interest, then if you know your different staffs,

goals and vision for their future and their self-interest. And you can align the club's interest with their self-interest. Then, you know, it makes that synergistic, harmonious, you know, working relationships that can, stand the test of time. So, yeah, yeah, please. If you have something to say, jump in.

Jeff Pacheco (28:43)

Yeah, I

mean, you mentioned culture. I think the biggest piece for me is don't be a clock watcher. Don't sit here and say, oh, there he is today and look at your watch. Trust them. Trust that they're getting their work done. If they're not getting their work done as a GM, it'll come to you. Somebody will come to you and say, hey, they haven't replied to that email. I've sent them two or three times or I have left four voicemails and this doesn't happen. It will come.

to the trough that this person is not producing. So just start with the full, full count of trust and build from there. And then let them be with their families on evenings and weekends, you know, like trust that 40 hours is enough, right? If you can do that, I think you also get a lot more because I want there to be balance, you know, I want to go see my kids stuff in the evenings. I don't want to be sitting here in the evening when I can be there with the support of my family.

So I gotta give them that opportunity as well.

Clay (29:47)

Yeah, exactly. And I guess that that's my retention question you just answered. I was going to ask, how intentional are you about building that kind of culture? And what do you think, if you haven't said it already, what do you think makes West Haven a place where great people want to work and that makes it a great place to work? Again, that was my question. You kind of answered it right there, but if you have anything to add on top of that, that'd be great.

Jeff Pacheco (30:09)

Sure.

mean, time management, I think is the key, right? If you know how to manage your time when you're on property.

In a pros case, know, are they playing with members? Are they teaching lessons? Are they sending emails? Are they ordering? You know, there's a lot of things that I'm sure Brad could probably dive in deep to. And, you know, even Brad probably say in the past that he wished that he sort of set the parameters probably a little bit tighter in terms of what he was given to his career in the past. And I think that's part of the evolution of the generations that are coming in is that they don't want to have priority as work one and everything else second.

They want work to be a part of number one, not necessarily number one. you know, as you work through all these layers of different generations, you have understand how they want to be able to give back. You know, if somebody doesn't want to be here on the weekend and they have the skill for their assistants or foremans to work on the weekend and they're on board and that's the way they want to run their ship, so be it. If they want to alternate weekends where they take one of the four, hey, maybe that's showing the right-

leadership. You know I think I love getting street cred. You know I could be out there in the parking lot shoveling up cigarette butts. I could be delivering a plate to a member. Whatever it is I'm not I'm not afraid. I've because I've walked all the steps I mean I haven't been as much on the ground side but I understand probably a bit more than the average bear and

I'm not afraid to jump in. Whether that's walking in the car and seeing a car getting blown over or about to smash into a car, I'll take it back to where it needs to be. It's just, if they see you picking up garbage and putting it in the bin, they start doing that stuff. And I think you gotta lead from the front. if you have someone that's my age that can still do that, I think that's what you need to do. Do you need to be here every day all day leading from the front? No. But when you are here, be present.

Let them know what's up, that you're capable and if they're shorthanded in any which way, you can run the dishes back. You can take a few drink orders. It doesn't hurt to get hands dirty a little bit. I know that's not always the model in some cases, because most GMs have an AGM and then a director and all these pieces. But to keep things as efficient as we need to here, that's part of my task when I see something that I need to jump in for and make it happen.

Clay (32:41)

Yeah, that's great. And it's a great attitude of the way it's like, you're not above the work.

Brad (32:41)

Yeah.

Clay (32:49)

You're not above the job, whoever is doing whatever has got to get done. Then you're not going to take the guy's work from him and be like, no, let me go scrub the toilets. You know, you don't need to do that. I'm paying you to keep the bathrooms nice and clean. And that, is your job. And if you're sick, if you're, know, in the back and you're, you're, you're little under the weather, I'm gonna ask you to go home and I'll probably maybe go and clean the toilets myself if I need to. But, it, it really puts the, you're in the captain's chair, but in any moment you can step into the trenches with them. You can look to them and say, what do need my help with?

can I help you right now in this moment? And just knowing that you have all of their backs, it doesn't matter what department, what role, whether you're picking up cigarette butts out front or running plates in the dining room, everyone sees that you're willing to step into that. everyone wants to help those leaders succeed, right? Cause you're not in some ivory tower. You're not sitting in some command center, untouchable and unrelatable. And I think that's, that really does build that.

culture of your staff empowerment and really, really drives retention of your staff. I'd ask a little more about acquisition, talent acquisition, but it sounds like what you mentioned earlier, you know, there's hiring internal talent and promoting that internal talent, which is kind of just like a talent, reallocation, not really acquisition, but it sounds like right now it's different now than it's been in the previous years.

Regarding new talent acquisition people are just coming to you like it sounds like you guys don't have to go looking for anyone they're just coming and applying and you got some quality resumes on your desk to Kind of choose through right now. It sounds like

Jeff Pacheco (34:22)

Yeah, no, I mean, in the turf department, we had three holes to fill with Team 30. And we filled them with people that have been in other tracks. And they came to our track because they heard the vibe was right. It's little things, they understand the standard that is there.

Clay (34:36)

That's cool.

Jeff Pacheco (34:43)

If somebody works in this industry, they have a bit of a golf bone in them somewhere along the line. So whether they've driven down the laneway and seen how sort of manicured the property is or whatever have you, they can get a quick test of, hey, this is something that I want to do. And so those three gaps filled super quick by recommendations from other supers. It's not like, sure, we look for the odd high school kid and the odd university student.

gaps too but they want to come back and I take my hat off to my ground superintendent for leading his team really well and you know even in the food and beverage they notoriously want to come back maybe it's partly because of our membership too you know like we're down to earth club that likes to have a good time and knows when to be intense at the right time as well and you know it's nice to have this model building all the way around from memberships getting better to staffs

getting better, retention of people is getting better. You just got to keep getting better every day. 1%, 1%, 1%.

Clay (35:52)

Yeah,

Brad (35:52)

Yeah.

Clay (35:52)

right on.

Brad (35:53)

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Your, your, your staff's your, best, best advocates, you know, when they, go off property and they talk to other people and, you know, it could be, I'm sure you have a few there where it's like, you know, somebody's brother, comes and works at the club. It's like, you know, families end up working at golf clubs, over time because you have, you have this culture and people actually want to be there. And it is like when a club is, is really a humming along and working well and harmonious.

It's a really enjoyable place to be for everybody on the property. And when you have staff that are extremely happy to be there, it radiates through the entire property and the members really, really feel it, right? They really see that and they love coming there. They love seeing the smiling faces. Let's, go ahead.

Clay (36:37)

Yeah. And just,

just, yeah, no, just to add that it is, it's like, it's like a sanctuary, especially if you're in a city or your certain places where people work and they look out, they see concrete, they see buildings, they see traffic, they see cars, they see busy sidewalks, pedestrians walking and shopping. And there's just so much busyness, right? And people can work depending on your role, depending on the role in the club. If it's not highly specialized, it requires, you know, a long...

And

And

the guy at your club's like, well, I wish I could complain about my boss and my job, but it's pretty sweet actually. I'm treated with, I'm treated with, sorry, go ahead.

Jeff Pacheco (37:58)

Yeah, I mean, it's not always perfect.

It's not, know. Yeah, there's some tough decisions and just probably people that don't like me, you know, that's kind of, know, cloak and dagger, right? Like it's just...

Clay (38:10)

100%. Yeah.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, right? But the point is, is that if it's a better experience than a lot of other places people are working at locally, then the buzz around the local labor market is, well, that Roxy's over there is an absolute...

They're going to run your ragged over there. This place over here, the boss is a drunk. He doesn't really have his stuff together and everyone knows it, but he's not going anywhere. So if you want to sign up over there and work there, that's what you're signing up for. So there's a buzz in the local labor market. If enough people are talking positively,

balance of, you know, 70 % positive, 30 % negative. whole point is, like, predominantly they have more good things to say than bad things. Then that does ripple out. And where you see it at the end of the day is just good applicants, good resumes come in every season. And you're like, I didn't, I didn't ask for this. I didn't pay for these.

Jeff Pacheco (39:08)

cold. Let's make this real simple. These

are normal things that happened to lots of guys at some point. And through hims, getting help couldn't be more, as we said, simple. The process is 100 %

Clay (39:22)

Yeah. The point is, that, you know, good people will be drawn to other good people and good businesses and they'll want to go there and just, you know, bring their, their best to that, get to that, that project, that business. And so it's, just, it sounds really cool. Cause it sounds like your reputation and all the work that you guys are doing there is starting to proceed you. And in no measurable way, you don't know exactly the buzz in the local labor market, but something good is being said about your business.

because people are arriving at your door come hiring time.

Jeff Pacheco (39:53)

one of the telling pieces I think this year was more members, one of their kids here or their friends kids here than years past.

you know, it was a lot of personal people reaching out saying, hey, job market's crazy, can you help my kid out? You know, can you help my friends get out? And so they're trusting me because of what they know of me as well as obviously this place in itself. Like West End will always be here. I'm not always gonna be in his chair, right? And so I just wanna have my piece, you know, lead from the front as best as possible and be flattered that, you know, my friends' kids wanna work here even though I might not be able to get them a job because we have no space, but.

Even members reaching out saying hey, my you know, grandson wants to work now, whatever have you There was way way more of that this year than ever before other GM's referring kids here Those type of things so, you know, something's kind of propelling in that right direction and we're building the right momentum

Clay (40:48)

Cool.

Brad (40:50)

Awesome. Okay, so let's pivot now to the hot topic of the times we're in right now, AI. You've mentioned before that you're not a techie, but you're definitely a future focus. We know it's early days and a lot of GMs are still wrapping their heads around how it fits into their club and can help them solve their biggest challenges. Given your background and experience in hospitality, what's your take on the role AI could play in helping food and beverage teams work more efficiently?

and reduce waste and spend more time on guest facing moments.

Jeff Pacheco (41:24)

So.

I think AI is very proficient at being efficient. I think it's one of those things where it's taking a ton of data and analyzing it super swift and getting you the right data on this side that you need to analyze. For me, it's how does food and beverage take a velocity report of what sold best in the member lounge last year so that I can say, okay, we're building a new menu.

This and this and this sold well well in order to do that now I go to my POS system I click here click here run this report run this report run this report do this do this do this Okay, that didn't work start again. Okay, you didn't click this off. You didn't click this off Whereas if there is an AI brush that kind of just said every morning I came in and saw an email in my inbox and said hey the Philly cheesesteak sold 15 to the burger that sold 10 I say to chef hey, you know that controls your par count of what prep you're doing in those lanes

So your spoilage and your waste becomes more accurate. You're not wasting it or always making the same soup because you have to reuse that product. And then our members are saying, why do we always have roasted red pepper soup today? Understanding sort of how things move off the menu and things like that. think AI could help in that space. Reservation systems, I think, are coming a long way in the AI world. Nobody wants to call a property and say, do you have room at 6 PM for 16 people?

Like that's a tough ask at 6 p.m. But if they could do that on their app and they know that is open there I think they do it no problem

So that ability to make reservations there I think is a good spot too. So the food side of it. Also understanding your profile that could exist in your POS system. Just visualize that Mr. Smith comes to the member lounge bar and you immediately know that he's on the turn. Okay, so you don't need to offer him this, you don't need to do that. Well, the computer's telling you that he drinks X product and he always does this at the turn. And you see him walking up the hill towards the thing there and you have it on the counter ready.

I can help with that. know, understanding that somebody coming off the 18th hole and they've had the best round, right? Why? Because they put that into Tion or Golf Canada and that spits it through the system that now says that, Colin had the best round of his career, it's personal best. You can go to him and say, here, here's a round of promo product of whatever it could be, whether that's food or beverage. And then you kind of celebrate with

them. How happy is Colin going to be? Do you also know that Colin has this huge social media presence because he loves the Gram and he's always propelling there. So now you've intentionally targeted Colin because of his propel now what he can do in social media. You know I think when I think of the hotel world when somebody comes to the front desk and there's upgradability there you say hey Brad I see that you know there's an upgrade

here are you willing to take it?" Brad's like, yeah, yeah sure I'll take it. But then know Clay's coming an hour later and Clay's got a hundred K on his followers that's gonna take a nice picture of this and broadcast it all over social media. Again, Clay's the guy that I want to upgrade, no offense Brad. But you know that's how it needs to happen and if you're savvy enough to understand some of those pieces and AI can help with that, I see a lot of things changing to not underestimating

social media and rolling and working with it. And I think that's the mistake a lot of people right now are doing is they're just underestimating what social media AI can do and as things evolve if you're not jumping on it you're not making that incremental revenue like you can I think.

Brad (45:22)

Yeah, yeah, totally. We're actually looking into ways our voice AI can integrate with the popular F &B software and POS systems, because we've been having these discussions with general managers about that exact moment that you brought up there where Jimmy loves Estella when he's done playing golf and having that ready for him. And really creating those member profiles, right? Having that as this database of

what this member does while they're on the property, know, all their idiosyncrasies, those little things that they do. And then having that information in a data bank where every staff member can pull from it. I think those are like extremely valuable uses for AI. So, and that's why we're having these discussions here. We're really discovering what golf could use this for and freeing up the time for people. So we're excited to see what we can build and the solutions we can create.

And for the GMs or F &B managers out there who are interested in AI, but unsure where to start, what advice would you give them if they are curious to and want to start somewhere, but don't want to overwhelm their team or disrupt the culture or waste time? Where would you have them start, do you think?

Jeff Pacheco (46:40)

Yeah, good question, Ryan.

Clay (46:45)

It's a question

for you too. If you, it's a question for all of us, right? We want to figure out the lowest hanging fruit and the fastest path to a real win that gets a tangible result for the least amount of time, the least amount of money, the least, shortest learning curve. So as you think about those, like where would you guys think it could help you and you know, where am I to help others?

Brad (46:53)

Yeah.

Jeff Pacheco (47:07)

My knee-jerk reaction is is you know, the club has its own Instagram handle and Going there and find out you know, what has done well in terms of views How many reels? Are you putting on there when to saturate it when not saturated? But also what faces to put on there of the club and then how many times is that post gonna be reshared? or seen so, you know people want to know

what the special of the day is. How are you utilizing that social channel to do that? Are you sending just an email out and it's xxxx, la la la, great, that sounds like an awesome anything. Or are you actually showing the product there and seeing that someone's purchased it, the experience in the lounge that day. The low hanging fruit I think is just understanding that.

The generation of golfers that are out there now is in a bit of a renaissance and the social media please carries a bit more weight. They're related in a sense with AI and meta and how it's all working and building together. Know where you need to promo that product to give them the experience they want so they can reshare it. There's nothing wrong with asking them to say, I need your numbers to help broadcast this message. I think anybody that understands it that has north of 20K followers,

gets it, how do you piggyback that influencer already? They're here, you know, what are you doing to help them have a conversation with them? You know, if they have a family, okay, this is what we're going to do. You know, I pivoted to two social committee members that have the best following in the club because I need our social committee to grow on and I know that they can do it. So because if they're putting the post out there, people are seeing it, he's having a good time, his wife's having a good time, kids are having a good time. So I'm broadcasting that with

Contention through that channel because I know they have that viewership

Clay (49:06)

Yeah, that that's, that's a definitely a useful application and I couldn't agree more. It's tapping into the, the experiences that your members are having that everyone's doing a lot of hard work to ensure they have. It's such, is, it's a low hanging fruit to just make the ask to make a clear concise and simple ask that does an inconvenience people, but they can easily just share.

a comment, especially if they have those followers and you know who the few people in your club who have that biggest reach are. and even the ones that don't have reach who just do it, it does, it creates more social proof. It does create more, especially people are taking pictures of their meals and posting it, you know, hash to hashtag West Haven golf, you know, or tag you guys, these little things, if, if, if even 10 % of your membership does this once a month, twice a week,

once a week, every day they're there, different rates of posting and engagement. But if even 10 % of your membership, you guys are in 350, give or take.

Jeff Pacheco (50:15)

shareholders, yeah.

Clay (50:17)

give or take, if even just they, the ones that have real buy-in and real kind of vested interest, if even just they did it, it really lights up your socials. And it's something that you can, that you guys don't have to do. So.

Jeff Pacheco (50:30)

Well this weekend alone, know, Food and Beverage, there's a bridal shower here. That night I got an email, the next morning I got an email and I guarantee you it's because of what we posted. It's, people are impressionable of what's online, you know, like, I don't know if you guys got kids but when they see what happens online it must be the grail. You know, it's happening online so it's real. Yeah.

Clay (50:42)

100%.

I'm dreading it. dreading, I've, I've little

ones and they're not yet, you know, watching this, watching the screens. But, I know once they do them like, dad, this is cool. And I need this. And I'm like, I don't even know what this is. She's like, well, I'm gonna hate you unless you get it for me. So get it. And I was like, great. Great. Fun, fun, fun times ahead. I'm looking forward to that. So.

Jeff Pacheco (51:06)

Yeah, Good luck, mate.

Clay (51:11)

Um, cool. Well, you know, and on the new technology, can be intimidating. Even social media to this day in 2025, it's been around 20 plus years. It's still very intimidating to a lot of people when they think about.

I, I, I log into Facebook after like not being on it for like three months or six months. And it's a whole different interface and user experience. And there's, I've lost track of how to even navigate it. So yeah, it's, the ones who are really into it and using it and have no friction with it to really tag them in and engage them and entice them and incentivize them to do it on your behalf. Even if it's just a member sharing a post, they're not getting paid to do it, but that's all still buzz and promotion and

And visuals, right? They said the pictures of the meals, people are enjoying it. Those pictures online. People are online foodies now, right? They like to see what they're going to eat before they get it. And all restaurants, if they have the pictures of the food, even McDonald's, look at McDonald's, you look at it, like, wow, that burger looks really good on your guy's poster there. You go inside and get the burger. It's nothing what it looks like, but they show you something really nice. So yeah, people were very visual. and.

Jeff Pacheco (52:15)

to it.

Clay (52:18)

Okay. So we're all about, you know, helping GMs get started with AI without needing a computer science degree. And we always say, think less about like robots taking over with AI and more like how can this give me and my team more time back and more actionable insights, you know, that we don't have to dig through a pile of data to get. So from your perspective, what are some ways,

that, you know, outside of food and beverage, just in your club in general, what are some ways that you hope or that you can see AI supporting, you know, your work specifically as a GM, but also some of your key staff who might be, you know, up to their ears in it, you know, different times of the year.

Jeff Pacheco (53:01)

Yeah, I think about...

So obviously we're in Canada here, we're barking out an election and one of the topics that things take in the backseat is environmental pieces here. You know, you have a lot of jockeying obviously with the economic state and what the Americans are doing, this and that, but environmentally there's a lot of really neat things happening and I'm pretty confident, you know, that a lot of these chemical providers are using AI in some way, shape or form to better their product.

They're taking, there's this ton of research and science that goes into all these things that we're applying to our courses and the pesticides, the fertilizer management, and how the IPMs come together. So there is this huge undertone of AI that I think already exists in that turf model. And environmentally, it hasn't quite shifted into the food and beverage lane at all. So I'm interested to see how environmentally it does that.

the pro shop world, you know, I think of like the mustard app that is out there for swing technology and AI and understanding, you know, swing patterns and where it needs to be, what muscle memory you can do on your own to get that AI piece there. So you have these AI models that are virtually coaches that have taken hours and hours and millions of hours of analyzed swing techniques that are virtually

acting like a coach instead of replacing a real coach to kind of get where you need to be. I don't know how that's going to work in some aspects environmentally with food and beverage but I think these AI pieces as they continue to grow and people become more aware of them I think they'll be naive to not want to understand them.

because at end of the day, I think AI is trying to help better society. It does create a better polished product traditionally on the other end. So if you want that better product and you know how to manipulate the AI to give you that, I think it's good thing.

Clay (55:17)

Yeah, those are great ideas. We'll add some of those to our note list of things to talk about in future episodes. And then like manual areas. Are there any manual areas of your job or your staff's job? It's heavily manual and eats up a ton of time. And it could be once a year, it could be ongoing. It could be a daily, weekly, monthly seasonal thing, but that you maybe wish could be automated or delegated entirely to a machine. Is there anything that comes to mind?

Jeff Pacheco (55:44)

Yeah, I think dish dish pit, you know, I started back when I was 15 in a dish pit and it was manual robotic there but you know, I think there's gonna be some equipment that comes out soon enough where you literally Survey survey belt kind of thing and it goes in there they drop the thing and it's gone You know something that filters all that out any of those jobs that are a bit, you know Not so glamorous. I think those are the ones where I AI can have some lasting effect, you know

think about GPS tracking for mowers and spraying, how efficient they've made that and not over spraying. people are over spraying by tens of thousands of dollars each application that they do. And now GPS tracking has narrowed that down for a better, more acute spend. And how does AI help that in the same breath? So yeah, interesting times ahead, guys.

Clay (56:40)

Cool,

those are great ideas, thank you.

Brad (56:42)

Yeah, those are great ideas. You've clearly put a lot of thought into leading with a vision for the future, but you still keep in mind the importance of balancing tradition with innovation in club management. As you look to the next few years, if you could call the shot, what will success look like at West Haven moving forward?

Jeff Pacheco (57:01)

Capital improvements. You know, I think you got to really be cognizant of what revenue you're bringing in and how you're capitalizing it and what cost avoidance you've had in the past to fulfill the needs that are, you know, getting to that lifespan. You know, understanding that, you know, we're what, almost 35 years here and, you know, the designer coming in to do our course improvement plan, you know, he's got some amazing ideas, you know.

It's going to be potential change on the horizon. But you know the little stuff that I heard it's exciting and you know again being adaptable is so key as things grow. But yeah capital improvements looking at you know how do you you know not just put lipstick on a pig but really get some you know changes happening that people can be like well the fruits of our membership dollars are going somewhere and not just assessing members doing it from internal capital.

The assessment, nobody loves that. I don't love asking members for more money on top of more money, but in this particular moment it might be the case, whereas in a few years from now we're embarking on something that we're rolling with in capital funds.

Brad (58:16)

Awesome. Yeah, Jeff, that's great advice and awesome ideas too. Really appreciate your time. And this has been a fantastic conversation. We know you have a lot going on and it's a busy time of year. So we're grateful you took time out of your schedule to speak with us and for pulling back the curtain on how you're leading West Haven and embracing the future without losing what makes the club special. These conversations are definitely going to be helpful for managers in similar shoes or those coming up in the industry. So really, really appreciate your time. Thank you, Jeff.

Jeff Pacheco (58:46)

You're welcome.

Clay (58:48)

Yeah, thanks Jeff. And you know, we appreciate it. You making this a priority for you when it wasn't anywhere on your radar a few weeks ago when we reached out to you, called you out of the blue. So you're in the middle of opening tons of stuff. is the worst time of the year for us to try to get general managers ear and attention and interest. And so we very much appreciate you making the time for us.

Jeff Pacheco (59:09)

Yeah, know, Clay, Brad, continue this momentum. You know, I think you have a great resource available for those that are interested to learn and, you know, wishing you guys tons of success. And if ever I can help in the future or if by chance you're in London and want to come swing the sticks, I'm happy to help guys.

Clay (59:28)

That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much. And if you're still listening right now and you're a GM who is curious about how AI can support your staff and elevate your club and while your members call our voice AI receptionist, it's a demo for the ACE call golf club. It's a hypothetical golf club and you can chat with it. You can call four or sorry, you can call one eight six six eight three eight eight five eight one.

Again, 1-866-8385-81, totally toll free. You can ask it any questions that someone would call your club and ask. And you can see firsthand for yourself exactly how this tech can help you and help your team members and help your club members get the information they need without involving your staff unnecessarily and tapping them in before they're needed to be tapped in.

And so you can see it firsthand for yourself. again, 1-866-838-8581. And that's it for today. Thank you for tuning into the ACE Call AI Podcast, where we help golf club managers win with AI. I'm Clayton Elliott.

Brad (1:00:39)

and I'm Brad Milligan.

Clay (1:00:41)

and we'll see you next time.