Lambton Golf Club GM David Main on The New Rules of Club Leadership: Emotional Intelligence, Team Growth, and AI
❓Don't use Spotify? Find us on all other podcast players here
📞 Want to start tinkering with A.I. at your golf club?
Call +1 (866) 838-8581 to claim your FREE copy of The Golf Club A.I. Amplifier™, a short, high-value guide designed to help you maximize your productivity with ChatGPT—whether you’re brand new to it or already using AI.
Just let our AI Receptionist know that's what you are calling for and we will send it over to you right away.
The New Rules of Golf Club Leadership: What We Learned from David Main, GM of Lambton Golf & Country Club
Running a golf club in 2025 isn't just about pristine greens and packed tee sheets. It’s about people.
And no one knows that better than David Main, General Manager and COO of Lambton Golf and Country Club.
In our latest episode of The AceCall.ai Podcast, David dropped gem after gem on what it really means to lead a private club today.
From the art of building culture and community, to developing staff with intentionality, to navigating the gray areas of member behavior with empathy and firmness—this conversation was a masterclass in modern leadership.
Below are the most powerful takeaways and pearls of wisdom from our 60-minute conversation with one of Canada’s most respected club executives.
1. Members Join for the Golf—But Stay for the Community
One of David's core philosophies is simple, yet often overlooked: "Golf is the draw, but community is the glue."
Private clubs are increasingly in the business of fostering belonging.
Great amenities might get a member through the door, but it’s the relationships—with staff and fellow members alike—that keep them coming back season after season.
At Lambton, that means being intentional about everything from food and beverage programs to the small cultural signals staff send to members daily.
It also means training staff not just on procedures, but on the emotional impact they can have in each interaction.
"You can create a training manual full of technical knowledge," David said, "but it’s the culture-building work that creates memorable experiences."
2. Culture Starts at the Top—and Radiates Out
Club culture isn’t just for members. It begins with the staff and ripples outward.
David shared the story of introducing "The Lambton Way" card—a simple but powerful initiative that outlines three daily commitments for every team member:
Be Present
Be Intentional
Be Better Than Yesterday
What made this effort powerful wasn’t the card itself—but the clarity and consistency behind it.
It gave staff a shared language, a unifying purpose, and a way to ground themselves in the club’s values every shift.
And it worked. A young seasonal staffer, fresh on the job, was overheard telling a member, “My pleasure,” instead of the default “No problem.”
That moment wasn’t accidental. It was a sign of a system working.
3. Culture Change is a Marathon, Not a Sprint
When David walks into a new club, he doesn’t impose his vision overnight.
He knows lasting culture change takes time, patience, and alignment from multiple stakeholders.
"Clubs change at the pace of an ocean liner. You can steer where the ship needs to go, but you can’t get there alone. Or fast."
For GMs inheriting a disconnected or outdated culture, David suggests:
Identifying early “small wins” to build momentum
Engaging boards and committees slowly and steadily
Recognizing that real change requires buy-in from staff, leadership, and eventually, the full membership
It’s about pacing leadership to match the readiness of the people you’re trying to lead.
4. Staff Development is Member Experience
In David’s view, recruiting and retaining great staff is club strategy. The better your team, the better your member experience.
That means getting beyond paychecks and uniforms. At Lambton, David leads with intentionality:
One-on-one career development conversations
Succession planning at all levels
Proactive conversations about future opportunities—even at other clubs
"If one of my pros gets a great opportunity elsewhere, I’ll be the first to pick up the phone and recommend them," he said.
Why? Because that reputation becomes a magnet for top-tier talent.
When staff know they’ll be supported, coached, and celebrated—even when they outgrow their role—they give more to the team while they’re there.
5. Emotional Intelligence is the GM’s New Superpower
David spoke candidly about how leadership expectations have evolved.
Today’s GMs need more than operational chops—they need deep emotional intelligence.
That means checking in on your team after big events, asking, “How are you feeling?”
It means staying calm when everything’s on fire and scorecards are wrong.
It means listening—really listening—when a member lashes out, because it might not be about the club at all.
"I don’t manage people. I lead people. I manage process," David explained. "My job is to inspire, coach, and create a safe space for growth."
6. Bad Member Behavior? Address It With Empathy and Strength
Gone are the days of brushing off poor member behavior with, “That’s just George.”
David reminded us that private clubs are microcosms of society.
Members carry their stress, trauma, and mental health challenges into the club with them.
That doesn’t excuse poor behavior—but it does call for empathy.
He often starts those conversations with a question: “How are things going?”
Sometimes, the response is an honest, emotional breakdown. And sometimes, it’s just the beginning of an accountability conversation grounded in the club’s values.
This balance of care and standards is where great leaders thrive. And the board must back them.
"We’re legally obligated to provide a harassment-free workplace," David noted. "More and more clubs are supporting managers when lines are crossed."
7. AI Is Already Helping—and It’s Just Getting Started
David is no stranger to innovation.
While AI is still in early adoption stages for most clubs, Lambton is already exploring real use cases:
Writing and refining complex communications and board reports
Drafting posters, presentations, and creative materials while maintaining brand standards
Using voiceover storytelling to bring historical figures like George S. Lyon to life in member communications
They’re also exploring chatbots that can help members navigate bylaws, event registration, and reservations—right from their phones.
"AI is saving me hours of admin," he said. "That means more time spent face-to-face with members."
For GMs curious about where to start, David recommends:
Experimenting with AI for communications first
Letting staff play with tools like ChatGPT for small tasks
Protecting your tone and brand—but letting AI do the heavy lifting
8. Use AI to Elevate the Human Side of Club Life
At its best, AI isn't replacing hospitality. It's amplifying it.
David imagines a future where clubs use AI to:
Track member preferences (like favorite cocktails or massage therapists)
Enhance fitness programming with personalized data
Act as a caddy assistant via GPS-enabled golf carts that suggest clubs based on swing data, weather, and course layout
"AI will help us create more memorable experiences by helping us know our members better. It’s not about replacing the human touch—it’s about freeing us up to deliver it more often."
Final Thoughts: Lead With Intention, Not Just Information
David Main embodies what modern club leadership looks like: values-driven, people-first, emotionally intelligent, and future-focused.
He’s walking proof that you can honor tradition while embracing change.
That staff development is culture-building.
That empathy is strength.
And that the clubs that win in the future will be the ones that take care of their people—members and staff alike.
🎧 Want to hear the full conversation? Listen to the full episode here:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7GScJJEfvPaSu4SRq8jEgI
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/030-lambton-golf-club-gm-david-main-on-the-new-rules/id1796017484?i=1000708676125
Other Audio Apps: https://acecall.ai/podcast
📞 Want to experiment with A.I. at your club? Call +1 (866) 838-8581 to claim your free copy of The Golf Club A.I. Amplifier™ and see what Voice AI can do for your club today.
👥 Join the Conversation: Be sure to join our private LinkedIn group, ACE AI Mastermind for Golf Club Owners and Managers, for more practical use cases, expert interviews, and peer collaboration on leading clubs into the future.
PODCAST EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Clay (00:03)
Welcome to the ACE Call AI Podcast where we help golf clubs win with AI. Owning and operating a golf club today is harder than ever. So we created Simple AI Solutions and a podcast to make it easier for you. I'm Clayton Elliott.
Brad (00:19)
I'm Brad Milligan. Together we bring a mix of entrepreneurial innovation and decades of golf club management experience to help you optimize your club, increase profitability, and elevate the golfer experience. So let's dive in.
Clay (00:33)
Yep. But before we do a quick invitation, if you are a golf club, GM, an owner, or any department leader, we'd love to have you inside our free private LinkedIn group, the ACE AI mastermind for golf club owners and managers. It's where forward thinking leaders can share ideas, wins.
learning lessons and use cases on how they're using AI to solve real club problems. If you want practical ideas, peer support and a shortcut to stay ahead of the curve, it's the place to be. Even if you just want to be a fly on the wall and not post or interact at all. The link is in the show notes wherever you are listening to this audio. And that's it. Take it away, Brad.
Brad (01:15)
Today's guest is someone whose name resonates across the Canadian club industry, David Main. With over two decades of experience leading some of Ontario's most prestigious clubs, David's journey is a masterclass in executive leadership. He currently serves as GM and COO at the historic Lambton Golf and Country Club. His path to this role has been defined by consistent excellence. From recently steering innovation at the Toronto Lawn Tennis Club for over six years, to revitalizing member experiences at Beech Grove Golf and Country Club.
And previously holding top roles at Beacon Hall, Brampton and Ingersoll Golf Club, David has done it all. He's known not just for managing operations, but for elevating them, strengthening club cultures, modernizing services and delivering elite experiences that members remember. Whether it was his decade long run as head golf professional at Northridge and Arodale in Brantford, or his leadership tenure at Toronto Lawn, his impact has always been unmistakable.
Today we dig into the leadership philosophies, lessons, and stories behind a career that shaped communities, transformed clubs, and inspired the next generation of golf and hospitality professionals.
So David, let's start with the big picture. When I was chatting previously with you and in our correspondences, you mentioned that members often join a club for their activity, whether it's golf, tennis or dining, but they stay because of the community. That's a powerful concept and should come as no surprise to anyone managing private clubs. And yet community building can be one of the hardest things to get right. From your perspective, what really creates that sense of belonging for members?
David Main (04:22)
Yeah, Brad, I've, I kind of came onto this probably a few years into managing where I always thought it was about the club or about the, activity and playing golf, but then, you know, quickly realized that it's, it's more about the culture. And, you know, if I go back to Simon Sinek's book of why it's, it's about that sense of belonging that we all crave in some way or form, whatever, wherever you need to find it.
But private club gives you that opportunity and you you socialize around golf perhaps or tennis or or or boating or dining or whatever your activity is. It it's what keeps you coming back because let's face it, particularly golf. There are lots of opportunities to play golf as a golfer and there are so many great public golf courses, ⁓ semi private courses that you can play, but.
you know, what keeps you coming back to a private club is ultimately the community. And, you know, you talk about what that glue is, I think there's a few things, you know, food and beverage. It doesn't matter whether you play golf or tennis, but we all eat and we all like to have a drink, whether it's alcoholic or non-alcoholic, we all like to socialize. So a strong food and beverage program that has a lot of great events connected with it that creates socialization, I think is critically important in the club space.
And then that has to start with your frontline staff. They have to understand the why. They have to understand why members are there and truly understand how their day will impact not only themselves, but their members day. And so I spent a lot of time, you know, working with the team on that, what that means, what that sense of belonging means as a staff member, but also as a member itself.
you know, and how can we create socialization and connection within the membership. So absolutely the glue that holds our club communities together.
Brad (06:27)
Yeah, for sure. And that's a theme that keeps coming up, David, is club culture. And you touched on it there. It's not just about the club culture for the membership. A lot of it has to do with the staff and how the staff are coming across. And members obviously pick up on that. If you go to a club where they have poor staff culture,
it radiates right into the membership. You're going to see that everywhere that you go. Whereas if you have a very upbeat, positive staff that's happy to be there, happy to be at work, really enjoying the property, enjoying the experience, that radiates directly into the membership. And you see that everywhere you go where it's a really positive club experience. People are like that. They pick up on one another's energy. So could you share a time when a small
purposeful effort at Lambton or any of your previous clubs created a big win in terms of member connection and engagement?
David Main (07:24)
Yeah, for sure. I mean, can say just at Lambton, this is my second season going in, but really truly my first season where I've got to spend the winter time working with the team and setting up for ⁓ the golf season and the tennis season because we have five outdoor tennis courts too. We created a Lambton Way card. It's just a business card.
⁓ and I gotta be honest as a club manager, my job is to steal everyone else's ideas. So I did not come up with this one myself. but did have the opportunity to listen to Jim James, who is now retiring after 30 years at Augusta national. And, and he created a card. ⁓ mind you, his was in green, ours is in scarlet red. And, we created three points for member first, sorry, for the team to focus on this year. One was being present. The second was to be intentional.
And the last one is to be better than yesterday. focusing on that helps the team, you know, really kind of come together around some principles because you can create a training manual and those are all great and those are all the technical things that the team needs to know. But this is the kind of stuff that helps create intentional culture. And I'll give you a quick example that I was just so impressed with one of my team members. It'll go nameless, but...
this young man working in the golf services and I finished around the golf last Friday and I hadn't met him yet. So I knew he was, he was new to the club and he immediately engaged in the membership with whoever was in the cart. I mean, he was asking us how our day was talking about how the weather was. And I was so impressed because, you know, he was 17 or 18 years old and never done this job before. He was already integrating. he was being present.
And then when I was walking away from the power card, I heard him answer a member by saying, my pleasure. And it's one of my pet peeves that if you say no problem. So I'd been instilling this over the winter time. And so I knew that my leadership team in the golf services were obviously being very intentional with their training and their coaching and for him to do that. so that's part of it. And then on the backside of the card,
we have hospitality, passion and teamwork foster memorable experiences. And that's our team motto, ⁓ our team vision. ⁓ And if we can complete that, we know we can work towards the club's vision and create that culture and community. And I'd also like to point out it's interesting that when that was created, ⁓ one of my senior managers actually helped create this, it doesn't say memorable member experiences. It says memorable experiences because as we're gonna talk probably more today,
It is absolutely important as a team member that you have memorable experiences at this club and enjoying it because if you're not having memorable experiences, you can't be expected to create them for the membership. So that's one way where Lambton were being very intentional about trying to create a culture around community and belonging.
Brad (10:33)
of that. That's fantastic. It's amazing seeing those young people really grasp those concepts and start utilizing them and then seeing the fruit from that. It's one thing to have a training session. interview, because I've done this, I've interviewed tons of prospects and then you hire some and some work out and some don't. But the ones who really grasp the entire process and really take well to the training
and then realize that, you know, I'm a part of this community here, right? This isn't, ⁓ I'm not just showing up to work and punching a card and going home. This is a community. And that's, think that's a really good way to kind of to segue here. The glue of the community is almost always the relationships. What would you say separates a good club from a truly great one when it comes to that emotional connection and creating ways for new relationships to spark or existing ones to deepen?
David Main (11:31)
Well, again, I think that has to come down to the people, but it is very top down. So our leadership ⁓ has to be intentional about hospitality. And, you know, we can provide services and if a staff member is just providing services, like getting your clubs for you or setting them up on a power card or making sure a towel is on the card, it just becomes very technical. And I think, you know, there's lots of
⁓ wonderful places that you can go at, whether it be hotels or restaurants that will get those technical parts down perfectly. ⁓ But it kind of comes down to that old saying of, know, people ⁓ may not remember what you say and they may not remember what you do, but they certainly will remember how you made them feel. And so trying to get that across and it's got to come from the staff and it's the only thing that I really truly have control over.
Yeah, there's foundational items that golf course has to be in great shape. The beer has to be cold. You we have to be consistent with our services and sometimes we need to improve those. But truly what members will remember is how you made them feel.
Brad (12:45)
Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. It is, and it does come back to culture. Those go hand in hand. It's how do you feel when you're at the property? It's something that's, ⁓ it's extremely tangible. When you arrive to the property, what type of greeting do you get? What type of experiences do you have? know, when you meet that back shopper, like you said, that first point of contact is often a summer student. And,
If that's like an upbeat individual, kind of one of your stars, that really sets the tone for the whole day. So they see this individual, they might know them by name. Hey, there's Daniel. I love Daniel. Right? They're going to be instantly happy. Even if they've had a bad day at work or in their personal life or something like that, this is a chance for a reset. So they get that nice greeting from Daniel. ⁓ And then throughout the day, if they're meeting other memorable staff members and having memorable experiences with them,
David Main (13:19)
sure to.
Brad (13:41)
You know, it's amazing what happens and that radiates through the whole property and you have that feel. It's extremely tangible when you just step on the grounds. And I know you've probably been to hundreds of clubs and you can tell, you know, when you're on, when you're at a really high end club where they get it versus somewhere where they're maybe struggling a little bit, there's a totally different feel the moment you step on the property.
David Main (14:03)
You know, the probably within five minutes of me being on a property, whether I'm walking into the clubhouse for the pro shop, I can tell whether they get it or not, you know, right away. And part of this, you know, to get a little bit more granular with it comes down to the orientations and the training because you said it, a lot of your middle management or year long employees, you know, maybe you can get them to get it. Maybe you won't, but.
You've got all these young people and people talk about how challenging that is. I don't find it that challenging. They want to be part of a community just like everyone else. They want a sense of belonging and they need direction and they crave that direction. But here's the challenge. If there's a gap and we onboard a young employee or a new employee and tell them about this is the Lambton way and this is the way we do things, but then they get out on their first day and they meet one of the...
tenured staff members and they kind of pull them aside and say, well, yeah, no, no, don't do it that way. This is what we do. That's terrible gap that you will just never succeed and never have a great culture. So you do really need to bring them all along and all onside so that they feel as a team, sense of belonging with the community. And it certainly helps to be at a club like Lambton where the members, they adore the team.
and they take such great care of them and they have utmost respect for them. So, you know, we're fortunate here and I think most of my colleagues would say the same, that they're very fortunate to have a lot of great members that really truly support the staff in many more ways than just ultimately paying their wage.
Clay (15:44)
Yeah, that's a very cool approach and perspective. I something unique with I'm learning, I'm not from, I don't have a golf background. I'm not familiar with the operations of private clubs, but I am now with all the conversations I've been having both on this podcast and with other GMs off offline. I'm learning a lot that the membership of these clubs are your biggest fans. They're rooting for your success.
their enjoyment and the experience they're paying for is very tied in to the team success from the newest seasonal starter or someone that's helping just keep the operation going all way up to the most tenored groundskeeper who's been there for 10 years or longer.
They want everyone to succeed. Well, other businesses, other industries, the customers can be very unforgiving. They can be very, you know, just make every staff member's day difficult. Some businesses, some companies, they might have to do it 20 or 30 customers in a day, all of which are trying to make their day difficult. That doesn't sound like the clientele of most private clubs and it makes everyone's experience, but it makes everyone's jobs better. Everyone's experience better. No one's like, they're not sitting there, chuckling with the new guys. He, as he stumbles around, right? They're going to try to help them give them some guidance. Cause
the faster he can get with it, the faster he can provide the service that they're, you know, they've come to expect. And to Brad's note about the people are having stressful days, they're having difficulties at work, they're having whatever, there's so much chaos and uncertainty and unpredictability in people's lives and in their work, in their families, their relationships, their health, whatever it may be, there's so much uncertainty that when they walk onto their...
the, they walk in the gates, they drive onto the lot, they walk in the front doors of their club. There's a consistency that they've come to expect and to count on. And to a lot of people that consistency can ground them. can ground them. can bring them back into a stable position and they're under firm footing, as they say, where they might be getting tossed around in their, in their day-to-day life. And so when they come in and then there's chaos in the club that is more unsettling, it's more, you know,
the bar has been set and if other staff, new staff coming in, can't keep that bar, it can, you know, be difficult, but that ties into, to, to culture. And so I'm curious, cause we're on culture. We're talking about culture. see that you've been the GM or the CEO or the COO of a number of great clubs over the years, which means that you have experience inheriting and taking over a club.
that wasn't yours, you know, a day before you started, it was someone else's who you're taking over. so, ⁓ it makes me think like you're taking over. If you come into a club and there's an existing culture, if you'll stale or disconnected, like where does that GM even begin to correct it?
because I learned from Joe, just this last one thought, but I learned from Joe Murphy recently, this is something I learned from him. He's saying when you come into a club and you inherit the culture, you can't just right away start forcing the culture through your sheer willpower into the way you want it to be. And that's even if it's not a very ⁓ productive or functional culture. And so
You know what saying? How do you, how do you both adapt to the culture with the in the spirit and with the goal of improving it and enhancing it and elevating it while meeting it where it's at? when you come in and it's already kind of disconnected and disengaged, cause you don't want to come in and meet the culture with a disconnected and disengaged approach. If that's kind of what you're inheriting, does that make sense?
David Main (19:29)
Yeah, I mean, it does and you can almost apply it to anything at a club. know, you're going to step in and you're the fortune of, you know, being at a couple different, few different clubs. ⁓ know, it was George Pinchas who once told me, know, know, clubs change at the pace of an ocean liner turning very slow. So I think that's the first thing to accept in leadership is that you have to understand how to pace that leadership.
⁓ And I use the analogy of being a, you know, perhaps a marathon runner, which I'm not. ⁓ You know, you just, you can't expect a race ahead of the crowd. So you can't race ahead of your membership. You can't race ahead of your team. Even if you know that you need to go from point A to point B in a, a culture change, you know, that's going to be a windy road likely. it, you know, I'll...
talk about it maybe a bit later as to, one of the things I had to learn was, there, even though I can very quickly see where we need to go, I can't do that by myself. I need committee support, I need team support, I need board support, I need membership support, and they all come at different levels and at different times. So I think the experienced managers like a Joe Murphy or myself kind of recognize what pieces of those puzzles have to be built first so that you can then show
that committee or that membership or the team that maybe there's a better way, maybe there's a different way that we can kind of accomplish something or change culture perhaps. mean, culture is very much a part of the fabric of a club. So it could be one of the tougher things to change, but I would probably say it can be shifted, it can be evolved. And any manager who would think that they can...
they can come in and just change it is probably a little bit green from that perspective. And Joe Murphy definitely would not be considered green. He's got a lot of experience though. ⁓ So they have to, you just have to recognize that it's going to be a slow change. How do you pace it? You what are the priorities? What are the gaps? What are the small wins you might be able to take early that you can be found based on foundational change on? And then try and bring ⁓ others along with you.
because it's impossible to do on your own. You're going to have to have a staff team that's committed to it. You're going to have to have a board that's committed to it. Then you have to committees that are committed to often the last thing to change is actually the membership. Because that could be a thousand or two thousand people that you're looking to actually influence. But it does ultimately all come down to leadership and pacing it.
Clay (22:06)
Interesting.
Yeah, persistence and patience. Patience is a virtue, as they say.
David Main (22:22)
Patience, resiliency, you you're going to take a few punches along the way perhaps, but recognize that that's okay because and it's one of those things that if I was to look back at myself 20 years ago and say, ⁓ what would I improve? It would be just recognizing that I know we need to get to point B, but it will not be a straight line. Like it's just not going to be.
It's gonna be a very curvy, wavy, up and down process. And when you talk about culture, it's gonna be long and it's gonna be arduous. ⁓ But you take the small wins and you see, and you just pace it through.
Clay (23:07)
Yeah, that makes sense.
Brad (23:10)
Yeah, you definitely made a good point about it. It's obviously not just you doing it, right? There's ⁓ others coming along with you in these changes if you are going to make them and they're going to take a long time. let's talk staffing then. You've said before that recruiting and retaining staff is just as critical as recruiting and retaining members. In the last 10 years, what's changed most in how clubs need to lead their teams?
David Main (23:35)
Well, yeah, I mean, there's, you're leading a bunch of different people and I you have to recognize right away they are people and they are all motivated slightly differently. ⁓ Anyone who tells me that they're not motivated by money, I don't believe them. So I think you need to give them a fair shake on that and that's something that's changed immensely over the last 10 years. You know, if I took a look at a sous chef's role or a line cook's role,
I mean, before it was like, well, you don't like it, we'll find somebody else. I mean, literally, that was probably 10 years ago. ⁓ And, you know, we still had a team environment, but, you know, the dynamic has shifted between the employer-employee relationship significantly. And we are focusing so much more on retention programs, orientation programs that aren't just, okay, welcome, here's your name tag, you know, here's your apron, here's your...
whatever it is that you need to do your job and follow this person around because they'll tell you what you need to do. mean, you just, you again need to focus more on you are coming into a sense of belonging in a community here and something bigger than just working on the line or washing dishes or cutting grass or whatever happens to be here. You know, that we're going to focus on those ⁓ details.
So I think ⁓ thinking about what motivates people now, ⁓ time off, significantly different for everybody. I was a background as a golf professional and very early on, I tried to make sure my assistant pros, like we're talking the mid late 90s, I was asking them to take a week off in the summertime. And it was very kind of I say.
cutting edge for the golf industry to say that an assistant pro is going to take some time off. I joke with my current head professional, Chris Vasey, he's been here almost 20 some odd years and about four years, I think, in the director of golf position. But I joked with him going into this year that I need to know on February 15th of this year, what week you're taking off this summer, because he's the workhorse. Like he's just going to be there all the time. And that's just not healthy anymore for any of us to expect that he I know we're busy in the summer.
But we're so much more busy in the winter than we've ever been that we need to take time for ourselves. So time off is it, you know, are you looking for growth and learning in your role or maybe it's appreciation. We all want appreciation, but you sometimes that's all the people are looking for is just to be appreciated for what they do. Maybe somebody wants to know that they're going to grow and gain more responsibility in their role. Much more focus on all of these now than there was 10 years ago.
Brad (26:31)
Yeah, yeah, I would agree. I think there's some other good things to talk about here. Basically, you know, you have staff members and you're, we're not trying to keep them at our clubs forever, right? If you have, somebody, that's their career path and they say, I want to be at Lambton for the rest of my career, great. Let's make you the best individual that you possibly can be ⁓ for the staff or the members, for everybody, the guests who come through the doors of Lambton.
But if somebody say, say just in the golf pro line there, if they want to, you know, they're, they're a back shopper and they want to become an assistant pro and they want to go through school and yada, yada, yada until they become a head professional. That's, that's the job of the club. In my opinion, ⁓ you know, the head pro, whoever's in place at that point to build that individual up and then send them on their way. And I think a lot of, ⁓ clubs, they're happy to hang on to people who, you know, maybe don't necessarily again, fit the culture.
⁓ or they've just, you touched on it before, they've become a little bit stale and they start to kind of infringe on the rest of the staff there. So I think this is a good place to kind of step into ⁓ succession planning. ⁓ It used to be something that was whispered about behind closed doors. How have you approached bringing that into the light and making it part of your leadership philosophy?
David Main (27:55)
Yeah, it's a great point and I kind of think of it myself as my ⁓ personal why. When I retire someday, ⁓ I want to look back at all the people that I've worked with and that I've seen grow. ⁓ And maybe I've had some small level of influence on getting to where their success is.
I'm never going to look back at a legacy of building a clubhouse or remodeling some golf holes. I that just kind of comes and goes. So I think you need to kind of breed that throughout the team because it's not just about the senior level team member or manager perhaps. And you do certainly see some team members that they're very interested in having a life in the club industry.
But there's a lot of young people that are obviously here on summer jobs that can gain a lot and grow a lot into whatever their careers are going to be. So I've been very intentional about talking with my team members. First of all, I'm not a huge fan of the once a year performance evaluation aspect of it. I like to think about it as your growth and your learning progress.
But again, not all team members are looking for that. So, and that's good and that's fine. But more and more of them, you do want to learn and grow in whether you're working in a kitchen or you're working in the on the course or you're working on the pro shop, you know, giving them more responsibility, showing them a pathway that if you want to become an assistant superintendent, you know, that will eventually then become a superintendent.
you are going to need to learn X, Y and Z. You're going to need to get some schooling from here. You're going to need to take on more responsibility in these areas. And I can set that path for you and it's going to take you about two years, maybe three, depending on where we're at. And you're going to have to learn about irrigation and you're going to have to learn about the agronomy aspects. I think it's about integrating that into what some people would call
performance reviews and making sure that you take time with that employee or that team member to say, okay, how are we with setting your goals this year? You were going to, you know, learn more about club fitting or this year we're going to learn more about teaching. Where are you at with that? You know, and obviously providing them the resources to hopefully successfully do that, but ultimately it's on them to learn it and literally having succession plans for every position.
I'm not suggesting that it means that that, you know, to become the first associate, you know, that certain people are in line for that, that that's where it's going to go. But you do as a club need to have things in place. If for some reason we lose one of those staff members, you know, do them getting another great opportunity somewhere else perhaps, or perhaps it's because they've just fell ill or...
whatever that might be, need to be able to show, who can step up into those positions? And, you know, it's tougher and tougher with club budgets to be able to have the flexibility to just have extra staff, you know, in order to do that. And I think there needs to be an open and transparent conversation with any of my senior leaders that if there are other opportunities at other clubs that I expect.
you to come to me and talk to me about that position. And I will help you understand if that's a good spot for you. And if it is, I will be the first one that will make that phone call to that manager or that recruiter or whoever it is and say, I've got somebody that you're to want to take a look at. So I think ⁓ to answer the actual question itself, it's being open, transparent and very intentional again, you know, about, you know, this not being in the dark.
closet of, well, I might want to grow and get a role at another club, or I might want to take on a more senior role within my club. ⁓ You need to have it in the open so that staff members know that you're thinking about them as people in their career, first and foremost.
Brad (32:27)
Thank
Yeah, that's a great answer, David. ⁓ I've seen it so many times before where you have staff ⁓ who all of a sudden at the end of the season, they're just gone. And they didn't let anybody know there's been no communication. Because like you said, a lot of clubs, they won't actually go through speaking with their staff until...
the kind of all the dust is settled from the crazy season and everything's calmed down and they're like, okay, so how do you think this year went? They're like, well, actually I'm gonna go across the street and work at this other club. And all of a sudden it's this massive shock and you lose one of your best employees where all it took, like you were touching on there was some touch points, some communication, following up with people, seeing how they're doing. Are they enjoying themselves there? What are their plans for next year? What are their plans for six months from now? Just having those touch points, that communication.
is so unbelievably valuable. So I think that's extremely valuable information for others to hear.
David Main (33:31)
Yeah, and to our earlier conversation about culture, I mean, that's your team culture. I I'd be very disappointed if I found out that a team member didn't approach there or have the open ability to approach their senior manager or myself about an opportunity that might be somewhere else. ⁓ We've got to be open to having our team members grow. That's what we do. But you know what, when that person maybe leaves, ⁓
you know, an assistant pro position to take on a top associate position or an associate position to take on a head pro position somewhere else. The rest of the team sees that growth and they think, wow, I want to be a part of that. I want to do that next. And when you're trying to recruit now, those people looking at the opportunities say, wow, well, those three team members went on to great positions later. know, after three or five years at that club, you know, it's nothing.
better as a recruitment tool than success of your team growing.
Clay (34:35)
Yeah, for sure. And like I've done construction recruitment for a number of years. I know how important it is for a company's brand to precede them. Their name has to precede them because everyone talks. Industries are small and ⁓ relationships are intimate and personal and
⁓ if your reputation precedes you as a place that will try to hold someone and keep them and squeeze every drop you can into them and then toss them aside when they're done, that will get around. And if you're known as that, you will not get the top talent because they'll see it as either a dead end working at your place or no room for upper growth, or they won't get a good referral because that's not the mission of the leader is to build people up, train them up.
get them as strong and capable and competent as they can confident as they can be, and then help them with the next move in their career. Cause if, if managers are known to be that and to do that and that's their pattern.
people will be kicking down the door to come work for you because they know that their best interest is your best interest. Your best interest is their best interest is the club's best interest. And it's just mutually beneficial for all parties. But, ⁓ cause that's funny. General managers, you're a general, you're a general and to check in with your, with your soldiers for lack of a better word, right? Like a lot of better merit, but a better metaphor after battle.
Right? there's a crazy tournament with hundreds of people or a big event and everyone would just run in themselves ragged.
It's a great time to check in after and be like, so how was that for you guys? Like, do you guys take a lot of shrapnel during that, during that last battle? You know, like, can I help? there any way I can help you guys, ⁓ get you into, ⁓ into medic and over the medic tent and be taken care of. And the soldiers are like, wow, my general cares. I, I, I incurred some injury in that last intensive little, ⁓ scrimmage there, but he's actually checking in to see how I'm doing. And he's making sure I'm bandaged up well. And I'm ready to go there. They'll go to battle for you again. Those soldiers will
be like, I'll follow you general into whatever situation you want to toss me into. And I trust no matter how many hits I take, you'll be the first one that I'm making sure I'm okay after everything's done and the dust is settled. And so I think that's a, it's a very important thing. And so that kind of leads into a thought that came up earlier as you were saying something, but ⁓ how do, how do you, as a GM stay present for your team?
especially during peak season when everything's moving very fast and you know, tensions are high and everything's happening, you know, quickly. You're in it. You can't kind of pause and step and reflect. You got to just kind of go through it and get through the other side. How do you, and so how do you prioritize your own self care and making sure that your cup is also kept full, not just everyone else's cup is kept full because it's really important for GMs to not run their staff ragged, but it's also just as important that they don't burn out and they take care of themselves as well.
David Main (37:29)
Yeah, you have to kind of practice what you preach, obviously. I'm fortunate. I certainly was what I would call more of a person that would be seven days a week through the summertime ⁓ being there. But I realize that, you know, as you grow and family becomes more important, my spouse is, you know, much more part of my life.
that I need to have my own time. So I find things to do that are outside the club, but I think, you know, more than anything, it's, you know, I don't know if it quite answers your question, but it, you know, when we're in battle, as you say, although I'm not sure I would consider most of my days in battle here, but you know, when you're in those really busy, reflective moments, and maybe there is a time where we've, you know,
have some challenges or haven't performed to our best. I think it's important as a leader, you know, to really not be reactive. ⁓ And this is something I've kind of learned through my years and that probably wasn't as good at early on, but really focus on, and again, being intentional, being present, to not being reactive, to being, you know, patient. ⁓
when those challenges hit or when those really busy times and you're in the weeds as they say on the kitchen line or the golf pros are, we had a pretty reactive time this morning. We had our gentleman's opening day. The 8.30 shotgun goes, it's coming in at 12.30. The one-shot 30 shotgun's ready to go. They're coming, they're going, they're everywhere. ⁓ But if you can be patient and you can be calm through those situations, your team sees that patience and they see
that calmness. Your team needs to know in those moments that they have a safe place, right? That if they fail or don't meet the expectations, that that's okay as long as we come out of it, we talk about it and we learn from it. So I've said for a long time that, you know, people will say, well, how do you, how do you manage your people? I don't.
Actually, I manage the process. I coach the process, but I lead the people. Right? My job is to inspire and motivate the people, but I can't manage people. Right? That's the wrong attack to it, but I have to make sure that the team can feel safe enough, especially in those tough moments, to explore where their boundaries are, like how far they can push it on that day. ⁓
You know what, they're going to make some mistakes, but as long as they know that that's okay, as long as they grow and they learn from it. to summarize, make sure I'm doing the things outside of the club to keep my mind healthy. But more importantly, when I'm here, I'm calm, I'm patient, and I'm creating an environment where people are going to grow and learn.
Brad (40:47)
Excellent. Yeah, I think you touched on, I've always thought this too, about the leaders of the club, the leaders of the staff. They have to have really good emotional control. Imagine yourself, David, if you're melting down, that looks terrible on everybody, right? And everybody else is gonna start melting down around you. And I was in a situation, I won't mention the club I was working at, I won't mention the individual, but there was...
a very high ranking ⁓ manager in place. And we were about to start our men's two day tournament and our guests there are invitational and the scorecards were wrong. So, and we're literally 10 minutes from everybody getting their scorecards and teeing off. So I was with another staff member at the time and instead of us melting down and losing it, we just looked at each other and we said, we'll talk about this later.
and we just got to work and we started printing all new scorecards. know, Clay, you probably don't know about this, but it's utter panic. Your heart is beating through your chest because you have all these guests who have come to your club and the scorecards are all wrong. They're all starting on the wrong holes. All the dots, which are handicapped dots, which denote where they get strokes, are all wrong. So.
Myself and we're both kind of veterans at this point. We look at each other and we say, we'll talk about this later. And we just pump through it. And we got it done in about 20, 25 minutes. Nobody really knew. We just kind of walked out casually and started putting cards on people's carts, right? And we were just so calm, just saying, hey guys, how's it going? What a beautiful day, right? And just putting cards on their carts, right? So when you maintain that emotional control and you don't show what's going on inside you, because inside my heart's pounding through my chest. But in those moments there, if you can just keep your composure.
and you don't let on that, there's a bit of a fire going on behind me, but don't worry, we're putting it out and everything's okay. I think that again, radiates through the entire property, radiates through the rest of your staff and your members. ⁓ So let's do a little shift here. Let's switch over to the member behavior here. So you've been vocal about how clubs ⁓ can't keep excusing inappropriate or even harassing behavior with the old, that's just George line.
What changed for you in how you approached those situations and have you had any serious pushback at all?
David Main (43:12)
Yeah, well, this is a probably a podcast in itself, for sure. And, you know, I think society changed. mean, as private clubs, we're a microcosm of society. you know, most of our private clubs, you could pull out three to five postal codes and realize that 80 plus percent of your membership comes from them. So, you know, when that happens, you know, and I guess one thing I've kind of realized too is
Brad (43:16)
Yeah.
David Main (43:41)
You know, you get into this private club and you just assume that everybody would know decorum and would all be on their utmost behavior all the time. But the reality is, you know, if we have 2000 members, we have members that have wellness challenges. We have members that have anxiety. We have members that have dependency issues. ⁓ have wonderful members, like, mean, that have no issues at all. But to think...
that the same things that aren't happening in society aren't happening at a club. To think that the politics of what's going on ⁓ in North America right now doesn't transcend into a club would be naive. And I think I personally was naive 20 years ago in thinking that we'll be part of the private club industry and it's just gonna be smooth sailing as far as human behavior goes. And the reality is it isn't. But I think you have to start from that place.
that members want to come to their club as their third place, your workplace, your home, and now your club. And so they want to enjoy things here. And I've encountered multiple times where members maybe weren't at their best, and which I've just had the opportunity to call them, talk to them, and say, how are things? Because your actions that day maybe weren't up.
what the values of the club were and I just want to talk and make sure you're doing okay. ⁓ I've had multiple times where people have actually broken down in front of me and saying, you know, thank you for asking. I'm really struggling. My ⁓ wife is, you know, dying of cancer or whatever. Like there's so many things that are going on in people's lives and they're brought into this community, this belonging and, you know, they're not always on their best. So I think
The club needs to take a look at their values. And if they haven't recently, they need to establish what those are. And they need to walk the talk of what those values are. And I think COVID, things in society right now, there's a silver lining that's come out of a lot of that because we've all had to kind of pull together as a society in a lot of ways to embrace some bigger challenges than private club.
And that embracing has kind of recognized that it's not acceptable, you know, to treat other people poorly. And that's whether that's a member on member action reaction or whether that's a member with involving with a staff member ⁓ reaction. It has to come back to those club values. And I think society has been better with it. And so I think clubs have supported it. And as a manager, I can't do much if that culture isn't going to be supported by the board of directors.
More and more I'm seeing it at a lot of clubs where they're taking a pretty firm line if members aren't up to their best behavior with other members or with staff, particularly with staff. Because remember, we have a legal obligation to provide a workplace that's safe and harassment free. And that definition has certainly grown a lot larger than it was 20 years ago.
Brad (47:04)
Yeah, yeah, great answer there. ⁓ Again, it comes back to the communication, David. It's your, like you were reaching out to your staff and saying, you you're having checkpoints with them throughout the season. It's the same thing you have to do with your members, right? It's the same, there are people too. This is a human game. We have human beings playing a human game here. So it's reaching out to those individuals. If you see them and they're looking a little bit rough or they don't seem like their normal chipper self, it's...
It's just pulling them aside saying, do you wanna get a coffee or something like that? And that goes so far with them in their longevity at the club and how they see the club. Like you said, it's basically a home away from home for a lot of these people. And they should feel comfortable to have those discussions, not with every staff member. You're obviously not gonna go to a first year back shopper and start airing out all your grievances.
but somebody like yourself, ⁓ and I've found this in my own life, I'd go give ⁓ a lesson to a member and half the lesson was them just telling me about their problems. It had nothing to do with golf or anything like that. We just have these kind of, I'm like, you know, I do fireside chats. If you want to sit down for an hour, we can have a fireside chat. We don't even have to have a golf lesson here because I've found that ⁓ when you are an approachable individual and you show empathy,
David Main (48:20)
Yeah.
Brad (48:25)
and you care about your members, they know that and they're willing to actually have some pretty hard conversations with you and they know that you can handle it. So I love your framing of clubs as micro environments of society, I love that term. And for GMs or staff who are afraid to confront those legacy members, maybe even board members, how can they start to build the confidence and the policies to handle these moments right away, would you say?
David Main (48:54)
Well, yeah, it takes some experience for sure. you know, there's the adage of peeling the onion back and getting the layers away to what the true issue is ⁓ that, you know, the member might be frustrated with and, you know, and perhaps they are, they are or are not expressing it well. I mean, we're out on the front line all the time. We're providing hospitality.
joke that I don't think I'd ever want to be a superintendent or a chef because all of our members or a lot of our members grow grass and they certainly all cook. So they're going to have opinions of what's right or wrong maybe in those roles. we are open to that and we have to accept that. We have to have the emotional intelligence and be able to embrace that they're not criticizing you as a person, that they are being critical about an operation and they have a right.
They're paying a lot of money looking for a certain service or product or hospitality. when it seems to kind of get inflamed or be a little bit more aggressive, I encourage my senior team to take it away into a calmer environment, such as maybe not the middle of the grill room or not near the first tee, invite them in for a time to talk.
you know, maybe it's them, maybe it's not. If things are too emotional, I suggest that, listen, let's all just calm down about this. And I've got time tomorrow morning at nine. Why don't we arrange a call and we'll talk then? Because you can't really get to the bottom of a conversation if somebody's in an emotional state. So you have to try and recognize that and just accept it. But asking questions, you know, ⁓ wow, I
You know, I can see that you're very frustrated right now. I'd like to understand why. You know, asking that questions and getting the people talking, I think helps more. you're, you gotta do that active listening thing where you're truly listening to the person for, you know, the signals of what's really bothering them. And it might not have nothing to do with the club. As I said, it could be they're just having a tough day.
You know, but it might also just be the fact that they have not been able to get out and play as much as they like. You know, the fees went up in price and they just don't feel like they're getting the value from the club that they really wanted to. So all of a sudden they're expressing themselves because it was a slow play on the golf course that day. And the slow play on the golf course that day has actually no reason why they're so worked up. So as managers, as leaders of the club, you know, we have to manage that process.
you know, by getting them talking more to really get down to the, you know, the brass tacks of what the issue is with that member. It's not easy. It's a skill ⁓ and it takes some experience and it takes someone to help mentor those team members through. But that's where having experienced professionals at your club, ⁓ you know, will pay dividends with the culture because the members will see that you are.
absolutely actively interested in listening to what their concerns are and more than anything you'll actually probably start to see more people complimenting.
Clay (52:22)
Yeah, that's a, it's a, it's a new, it's a new place we're at now because we understand a lot more about human behavior, human needs, intrinsic, deeply, personal values and motivators and what incentives are. And the more we understand humans, you said something earlier regarding
you know, the, the relationship between the labor and the management or the labor and the owners and for hundreds and hundreds of years, know, Mark's wrote books on it, capital and labor and labor is really the, the true valuable thing. And, it was, no, it's capital and it's labor. And it's this back and forth when if
people sides can recognize the value in each side that each side brings to it. Then there's more harmony between there's, less labor revolutions and revolts and things like that. And the whole project gets done. And, know, from an outsider's perspective, looking in, I don't know what it was like before, but it really does appear like the club leadership today requires
almost a new kind and advanced degree of emotional intelligence. ⁓ know, you don't have to be a therapist or a counselor per se, but a mentor for sure. A coach, a mentor, someone that can help people move forward if that's what they want to do. ⁓ and members as well, right. If, if, a good GM, a good manager that has these interactions and builds the relationships and the rapport and the trust,
can then say to a member without offending them, with tact and with a certain respect of like, Hey, are you seeing anybody? You talking to anybody about this? Like maybe you get any help about this, man? Like if you just suffered on your own, you know, there's people out there that you can get help. You don't need to do this. And if they're like, no, I don't need any help from anyone. You're like, well, you're talking to me. And it sounds to me like, like you do, like you could, like you could use some professional advice from someone who is paid and trained.
to help you with the thing that you're struggling with versus the GM of your golf course who, Hey, I'll be here for you, man. I'll, I'll, I'll have a beer with you. I'll go for 18 holes with you. I'll let you cry on my shoulder if you need to, but we can't do that every single day. You show up here. We need you to, to see a professional you can do that with, and then come check in with me and from time to time and let me know how it's going. And it's like, that's, that's an appropriate relationship, you know, so there's boundaries that managers and staff have to hold with the, with the, with the members.
And the members have to, again, understand there's a code of conduct, appropriate behavior that is respectful of all parties. And, know, without crossing lines and expecting people, cause they're paying a membership fee to be able to turn little Johnny, the new, you know, first season guy into their, ⁓ either the punching bag or their crying tissue box, know, like one of the neither are okay. But, but again, this is you're in the people business, you're handling people.
David Main (55:13)
Thank
Clay (55:18)
and humans and human emotions and human dynamics. And it is one of the hardest things to do. It is not an easy thing at all. ⁓ but let's, let's shift that. I w can keep going. We're almost at the top of the hour and I, and a couple more things I want to get into specifically, let's talk about the future of golf that is here today and is here to stay specifically AI. You've said that, you know, AI will have a permanent place in clubs.
that you mentioned to us before the show and in our discussions that you your club you're already experimenting with some cool AI applications. Can you share a bit more about what you've been doing with AI in your club? The anticipation has been killing me because I've wanted to know more and we haven't dug in yet.
Brad (56:01)
You
David Main (56:01)
Yeah,
well, I mean, I think AI is, you know, something that's going to be a part of our lives more and more. And ⁓ I think that, you know, people have a right to be a little bit, you know, concerned or maybe a little bit, you know, scared of what that can might look like. mean, especially how fast everything's changed. I mean, I first got introduced to Chatchi BT maybe a year or so ago, and I just can't believe where it's come.
you know, since then and how I've used it. I mean, I think, you know, first off, ⁓ that is something that's, you know, helped me administratively, ⁓ saved me countless hours on helping develop, ⁓ you know, PowerPoints for presentations, whether it be to a committee or a board or the membership or, you know, in using communications and helping to write messages.
You know, even respond to emails at times, ⁓ know, challenging emails that might help, you know, make sure I reflect all the points that I want to get across. I don't ever think particularly with hospitality, and that's the business I truly believe we're in, ⁓ is it going to replace anything? But what it's going to be is more and more effective ⁓ use of my time, which can be forward-facing in front of the membership.
So we've been using it with communications and different communication tools. We're having a fun thing that we're working on right now. ⁓ know, George S. Lyon was one of our founding members and, you know, we're gonna try and kind of release some of our, you know, our values and our standards around the club with a voiceover of George S. Lyon and kind of a bit of a chalkboard kind of scenario where.
where George S. Lyon is going to talk to you about appropriate things to do and not do around the club, perhaps. So just a different way to kind of engage members through communication, because I think one of the constant challenges at clubs is getting members to digest the massive amount of information we have to give them. And the emails and...
You know, how long ago was it? Well, we would send out emails every day and then we would schedule emails at certain times of the week. And, you know, what are we going to do with the newsletter? And very few clubs print that newsletter anymore. And so we're always trying to find ways to engage the membership and get that information we have for them to them. So we're trying to use AI in that form right now and just be a little bit more creative, you know, but I think.
We will look soon into upgrading our app. And I think with that, I think there's an opportunity to get into chatbot aspects of Club that, you know, no longer will it just be about being able to answer what our hours of operation are, but being able to download all of our documents, all of our governance documents, all of our bylaws, all of our event structures.
so that a member who just has some quick things off of the app on their cell phone, which we are addicted to nowadays, and I'm right there, addicted to using the cell phone that I can just type in quickly, ⁓ how do I book ⁓ a dining reservation or how do I book myself for the gentleman's two day? What's the process for that or?
You know, maybe somebody wants to explore the bylaws and find out what the voting structure is and understand that, that the AI has digested all of that in a very simple chatbot, which by the way, we'll probably name our chatbot after George S. Lyon, so that it can integrate with the cloud. But they can get that information without having to go, you know, dial up and go through press three for this person and press eight for that person. And then finally get somebody who probably isn't going to know the answer.
Clay (1:00:11)
or they'll get a voicemail box.
David Main (1:00:13)
Yeah, I would not expect that my ⁓ pro shop staff would know all the bylaws and you know the information that's there. So you know, I think that there's some great opportunities there and I'm super excited about where the future is going to go. Although we haven't integrated it yet with with two areas. One the emerging aspect of what our grounds crew can do and then talking with a few managers who have done this already and use the you know the.
the rough cutters or the different things that are AI. It isn't about reducing labour. It's about being able to repurpose that labour into details around the club that are important to the members because they're always needing to find more time to do more work on the course. So I think that's exciting. And I did an AI talk with George Stavros from Pace Center.
One of the things I thought will be emerging and it turns out one of the cart companies and I'm not going to name them is already working on Your GPS on your power carts being able to set up So that can tie in with whatever teaching tools are using so it can almost become my personal caddy So I think this is like the future of where we're going is I'll be taking a power cart and I'll be able to enter my
my login information, it'll know how far I generally hit my seven iron, it'll know how often I hit that properly, and it will be able to help me understand what club I should use, and it's gonna pick up all the elements, where the wind's coming from, know, ⁓ is it wet out, ⁓ will you get more roll, it'll be able to actually be a caddy ⁓ set up as AI, and it'll learn because...
every time I maybe get better or worse at my golf game, it's going to integrate that into the suggestions it's going to give for me. So think about going to those wonderful courses that you've had some really great caddies at. They take about, you know, five minutes to see it take a few swings and they recognize that they should put a seven iron in your hand or a wedge or whatever it might be. Think about integrating that into AI and what that could mean for ⁓ your experience on a power card.
So I can see that coming in the next five years and I think that's gonna be an exciting part for club.
Clay (1:02:46)
Very cool. And you guys are using Pace Setter?
David Main (1:02:51)
No, we're evaluating our app option right now. ⁓ And probably this fall, we'll make a determination. George does a great job with Pacesetter. And ⁓ I know there's a couple other products on the market now, Jonas as well. And we'll see where we go in the fall.
Clay (1:03:10)
Very cool. And so like thinking big picture, how specifically do you see AI helping not just GMs, but you know, your major, you know, ⁓ managers, the different teams, just really quickly, like what are the major time savers aside from communications and email writing? Is there anything else that, know, your, your mind goes to when you think about the applications of this?
David Main (1:03:36)
Yeah, I don't, I think there's time savers on administration. But then the next part where I think AI is going to be is where it really is going to bring out the member experience. I mean, we're here to create memorable experiences and having more data and information about ⁓ your members and perhaps your guests when they arrive is going to only help us improve what your experience is when you're on site.
So, you know, there are systems out there, I wouldn't call it IAI, but I mean, there's software out there that will help us, you know, keep a log of people, but I'm looking for AI to get more ⁓ intelligent on doing that for us, ⁓ whether it be your drink order or whether your food order or how often you use the fitness facilities, what you use within fitness perhaps, you know, being able to then...
help our fitness instructors lay out a training regimen for that member. Or whether it be ⁓ the server being queued up, that's Mr. Smith, and Mr. Smith loves his old-fashioned, but ⁓ likes extra orange in it, or whatever that might happen to be. And there's software now, but I'm looking for the AI to really...
dig into the information that is already on our software systems and be able to bring that forward. The systems I see now, you've got a, there's a lot of manual integration still. So I'm looking for, guess that's a time savings, but ultimately I think it's where it's going to improve the experience of the day-to-day ⁓ aspects of the membership.
Clay (1:05:26)
Yeah, that's something we're looking into right now is how do you take all the information and make it a actionable, quick, concise, not need to like dig through and read every data point yourself and then draw conclusions and all these things. It just gives you the actionable step. The data is already in there. You're also adding to it over time. And then with, you know, constant refinement and ability for it to
be taught and trained and configured to what it is you want, what are the outputs you want, what are the outcomes that you want, and to be able to teach the AI with examples of this outcome would look like this. The tech will keep doing what it's doing. It will keep refining, getting better at ⁓ not inferring intent, but making a clear conclusion about intent based on
the same input it has right now. It just can draw better conclusions. Like you can give a human 10 data points, 20 data points, and in a few seconds your brain can go, I know what you're, I know what you're looking for here. And you know, we're still smarter than AI in that way, right? We're not, there's not a general and we're not adding general intelligence yet or all these other things. Everyone's talking about that. I also have my, you know, concerns and uh,
apprehension, natural apprehensions about, right? It's intimidating. It's, it's, it's a, it's very powerful stuff. And, but I, again, I think every industry will have its applications. I don't spend much time looking into the military applications of these things that keep that stuff keeps me up at night. But you know what, we can't do nothing about those things. What we can do is make our little corner of the world better with this tech and this technology. And wherever we find ourselves, we can.
We can improve, can enhance, can streamline, we can reduce stress, we can reduce burnout. And these have real, ⁓ effects on the people around us and the people we work with, which is a real gift that this tech is providing. So, you know, for the leaders listening who may feel overwhelmed by the pace of all this tech, like you just said, right? Like, what would you say?
And what would you encourage them to take as a safe first step to just explore AI in a meaningful and intentional way that can help them get some small wins quickly.
David Main (1:07:37)
Yeah, I'd say that the easiest path to starting to use it is within communications. ⁓ And, you know, whether you're doing that yourself as a leader at the club or whether you have a team member or two that's helping you, it is so much easier to use ⁓ AI to help develop PowerPoints or develop posters or develop, ⁓ you know, even the messaging and the writing that can happen. I mean, it still requires your
touch. And I think that's what's important. You can't just rely on this and just, you know, set it to go. You have to bring that into the culture of the club. Say, for instance, with us, we won't use stock imagery in any posters. We still need to use our imagery. But we can import that imagery into the AI, whether it's BeChat, GPT, or something else to help develop that poster. And you can import the font styles for your brand.
guidelines into it. But, you before and I say this with my wife who's in the creative space, you know, and she could spend hours, ⁓ you know, developing a poster or some, you know, piece of communication, you know, for clubs, you can get very professional work ⁓ with some of these systems to meet your own brand guidelines. That's if you even have any, but, you know, there's a good start.
⁓ It can help you develop your brand guidelines and what you should be looking at very simply type in the chat GPT What should I do to create a brand guidelines document? You know for my club boom It'll spit out all the different decisions that you probably need to make to help create that you know use of logo use of ⁓ Fonts whatever that might be. So I'd say the first thing to do is
It's very simple, but it'll probably raise the professionalism at your club and help with a lot of clubs that, you know, if you're lucky, you've got one person that's working in communication that's probably overloaded. What a great way to save them some admin time ⁓ is have them working on this. I think it's a great start. And then you can, you know, build and grow on that to things that are a bit more member facing that.
And as the technology grows in the next, like every month there's something new coming out. So I would start there.
Clay (1:10:02)
That's a good, that's a good, uh, recommendation. It's low risk, low stakes and high reward. Uh, because you get back high reward, low risk and you can't, especially when you're doing it behind the scenes or you delegate it to one of your staff and say this, I don't know, are you using this thing? Chat GPT and these things right now, if they say no, say, please try it this week. We have, have a lot of communications to do. Just tinker around with it, play with it, see if it can get you a good first draft.
David Main (1:10:08)
I reward.
Clay (1:10:30)
that you can then massage and work instead of looking at a blank white piece of paper or a document of your paper. you're, and even if you're working from a template, ⁓ you know, we only have so many templates, right? But this can give you your templates. can give you what you need. And then, ⁓ if it doesn't work or you don't get what you want or someone has to fumble around with it for a bit, none of the members, none of the guests are none of the wiser. So there's, there's no risk. It's a free tool. and it can start to work.
yourself, your staff or yourself can work your way up the learning curve a little bit.
David Main (1:11:01)
Exactly.
Clay (1:11:03)
Cool, thank you.
Brad (1:11:03)
Yeah,
yeah, as we wrap up the main portion of our interview, let's hit you with a few quick ones here, David. Time for a rapid fire round. You ready for it?
David Main (1:11:14)
Sure, go ahead.
Brad (1:11:15)
Okay, all right, here we go, short answers only. What's one book every club leader should read?
David Main (1:11:24)
Wow. Well, I'm sorry, I got to go off script. I'm going to give you three. ⁓ I've got a wealth of them back here, but and they all are a little bit different. One is The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle. ⁓ I'd say Brene Brown's Dare to Lead. And then Tuesdays with Moray by Mitch Albom.
Brad (1:11:29)
Awesome, go for it.
Clay (1:11:29)
There you go.
Brad (1:11:50)
Fantastic. What's your favorite part of the job?
David Main (1:11:56)
It's about people and I absolutely love coming to work and connecting ⁓ with the people. I think when I retire, I kind of might be liking it for those of you who played a team sport, maybe hockey, whatever it is, and you stop playing. It's one thing to have been playing the sport, ⁓ but it's another one that when you develop those relationships and those connections with your team.
You know, it's in the locker room. It's all those practice times that you've had together. And I can think of that with the staff. ⁓ You know, I can only imagine how challenging that will be eventually for me someday when I have to walk away and not be able to come in every day and, you know, just enjoy the staff team and the members alike, of course. But, you know, there's a strong connection of community that I think as a leader, as a manager, leader at a club that you connect with your staff.
Brad (1:12:55)
couldn't agree more. What's a common piece of advice in the club world you completely disagree with?
David Main (1:13:02)
I don't know. ⁓ You know, I'm a bit of a traditionalist in a lot of ways with clubs. I love the structure, but I can completely appreciate ⁓ where I think that our dress codes are way too strict. I just be honest. I mean, I've had the opportunity to work at a city athletic club and you know where their dress code on court was very strict, ⁓ but.
around the club itself. It took me a while to kind of understand why somebody was wearing a hat in the clubhouse. I just, and maybe even backwards for that matter, because in tennis, wearing a hat backwards is something they do. So I'm not suggesting that clubs should upset the apple cart on that, but I think there's going to need to be some flexibility and trust in our members that...
You know, they need to be comfortable. They need to, and I think as our younger members come up through that, I think they respect traditions. But I think there's room for us to be a little bit more flexible.
Brad (1:14:09)
What's one thing about club, sorry.
David Main (1:14:11)
Hopefully, hopefully, as I was gonna say, hopefully
I don't vilify my colleagues for that one.
Brad (1:14:16)
They're all gonna come in in jeans in the next couple days. ⁓ What's one thing about club life that members don't see but should appreciate more?
David Main (1:14:30)
⁓
You know, I think the, if I'm doing it right as a leader at a club, the membership should have a pretty transparent view on a lot of things around the club. So that's a tough one to answer. I feel the membership should be exposed to everything, whether that's financial or the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to run an event or.
You know, maybe, you know, in the past, when I was a golf professional, people would always say, what do you do during the winter? And I'm like, I don't go down south for six months. No, there's a lot of work to be done around the club. And that's where a lot of the, you know, the thinking and the planning goes. So yeah, I answer that by saying that if we're doing our jobs right as leaders, there's a transparent kind of exposure to everything. And I just...
I don't think the members question that.
Brad (1:15:36)
If you could automate one part of your job with AI Tomorrow, what would it be?
David Main (1:15:45)
⁓
Yeah, you know, my role particularly is certainly about as much making connections and creating those social environments for the community of the club. AI can't do that for me. So what I like about AI is it cleans up my time to free up to do, first of all, what I really enjoy. And that's making connections with members.
You know, for me, I'm actually bit of an introvert at heart. So, you I have to be intentional about being out and being around and engaging in conversations. And, you know, the more I do it, I think the more comfortable I feel and the better I'll be at my job. you know, I don't know that it's necessarily going to improve my job, but...
It certainly has already made a significant impact in what time I need to spend administratively. ⁓ So right now with me personally, I would say that's the best improvement and it's already happened for me.
Clay (1:17:01)
Cool.
Brad (1:17:02)
Those are all really good answers. David, this has been a great conversation. Really enjoyed it. Thank you for sharing so candidly and giving us and our listeners a deeper look into what it really takes to lead with empathy, build culture and raise standards in the industry. And for sharing what you are doing with AI, which I'd like to hear more about at the end of the season, you're introducing totally new club management industry KPIs, which is very cool. So hat tip and salute to you for that as well.
David Main (1:17:32)
Thank you very much, Fred. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
Clay (1:17:36)
Yeah, very much. Thank you, David. Thank you for sharing all your perspectives, your success stories, your advice and for joining us. It was a great discussion and you your, your, your style of leadership, really highlights the shift that we're seeing across the industry. It's something we're hearing about. Um, and it's good, right? Less top down, more human centered, more, uh,
looking at each other as equals, even if there is a hierarchy of, of, management and responsibility and all that thing, you know, we're not, we're not better or worse than anyone and no one's better or worse than us. And everyone's on a team and there's, there's like a Bible verse and I'm not pulling it right now, but it's like,
The head is important, but the hand is important and the ear is important and like everything's important. The feet aren't more important or less important than the head because the head without the feet is useless, you know? And so every, every, every player, every part, every member is important. And it's really cool to see that you're, living it, you're, you're, preaching it, but you're walking it and you're talking, you're not just talking it. So it's very cool.
David Main (1:18:27)
Hmm.
It's an exciting time to be a part of club, that's for sure.
Clay (1:18:43)
Cool. Well, thank you. And to our listeners, if you found this episode helpful, please go ahead and share it with a fellow club manager or owner. And if you have not joined yet since the beginning of the episode, when I mentioned it, please don't forget to join our free private LinkedIn group, the ACE AI mastermind for golf club owners and managers. The link is in the show notes wherever you are listening to this audio. And that's it for today. Catch us on the next.
episode of the Ace Call AI podcast where we help golf clubs win with AI. I'm Clayton Elliott.
Brad (1:19:15)
I'm Brad Milligan.
Clay (1:19:16)
and we'll see you next time. Take care.
